Wednesday, February 24, 2010

Late Afternoon Mormonism--Post Edit



It was late in the afternoon
when The Chief and I arrived at my parent's house. I was doing a radio interview where I had to call in using a landline. Chup and I have three cell phones between us, but no landline, so I was there to borrow my parent's.

While my mom and niece Lindsay entertained The Chief with toast and apple juice, I talked with Jane Flotte of Interfaith Voices about being a Mormon blogger on the phone (the landline). Jane asked interesting questions and I found myself having to really compute to answer them. Questions about being a Mormon who is public about my faith, Mormon stereotypes, Mormon lifestyles, Mormon ideas about womanhood.

Deep breath.

When the interview was over I thanked Jane for making me think. Then I joined my mom (Umi), Lindsay and The Chief in the family room where my curious boy was digging through his Umi's toy basket looking for cars. My mother's neighbor was also over, sitting on the couch in her black-and-white dress and pink jacket.

"I have news." She said to my mom.

"Yes?" My mom answered, sitting on the opposite couch with her legs crossed.

"Mr. Whitehouse's wife passed away this morning."

"Oh no." My mother replied.

In our very dominate Mormon neighborhood lives a quiet family who isn't Mormon, the Whitehouses. We probably wouldn't know they weren't Mormon (maybe just not active Mormons) if it weren't for the giant gray van they drive with the words "Baptist Church" on it. Just the same, we all lived our respective Christian lifestyle as friendly neighbors.

"She'd been in the hospital for a couple days, but this morning when I went to see how she was doing, Mr. Whitehouse told me she had gone to another place."

"Another place?" My mom asked.

"To another glory, he said. Anyway, he has no idea what he should do next. A funeral, a burial. I asked if our Relief Society could help feed his family. He has no idea."

"We need to call the bishop." Said my mother, who has the bishop on speed dial, because the bishop is her son. "The bishop will know what to do."

Our church is organized by wards--a defined geographical area--which in Utah means a couple blocks. Our wards are lead by a bishop who is called typically to serve for five years (more-or-less) out of the goodness of his heart. It is a big job. One of the many responsibilities of the bishop is to oversee funerals. He helps the family make arrangements for the casket, burial, and church money needed for the expenses if needed. Along with the Relief Society President, he also helps ensure the family is fed and sees to their needs. Typically the ward provides the family lunch at the chapel following the burial. It is a total collective effort for all neighbors directed by the bishop.

After calling, texting and emailing the bishop without an immediate response my mother stewed. "She was having such a hard winter. I hadn't seen her in a while. We need to help him. The bishop will know what to do."

"Even though they aren't Mormon?" I asked.

"You know," said my mom's neighbor "one time I asked Mr. Whitehouse why he wasn't a Mormon. He told me 'One day I prayed and asked God if I should be a Mormon. And He answered me, Yes . . . if you want to go to Hell.' "

We all laughed for a second. The Chief was playing with a tiny car on the floor.

"Wooshshshshshshshsh!" His sound effect.

"I'll go back over and ask if we can help contact family." Said my mother's neighbor, playing with her pearl necklace back-and-forth with her index finger, "I will check back with you later this evening."

After she left, my mother tried the bishop one more time while twiddling her hair. My mother only twiddles her hair when she is worried about someone.

I sat back on the couch thinking about the earlier interview. Here was the Mormon experience I wish I could've conveyed in that conversation. How could I ever explain being a Mormon in under fifteen minutes? Even fifteen hours couldn't do it justice.

Even on a landline.


Post Edit-thanks readers for pointing out that my first edition of this post didn't go far enough in explaining why the bishop was needed. I can count on you, can't I?


On dear c jane today:
Cute kid wearing a cute t-shirt.




On c jane's Guide to Provo:
Have you bean to Cocoa Bean Cafe?



My Community:
Is your answer samosas too?

202 Pieces of Opinion:

«Oldest   ‹Older   1 – 200 of 202   Newer›   Newest»
Kebeni said...

When I open my rss reader the first blogs I go to are yours then your sisters LOL.. I never comment as I figure you get more than enough to read without me contributing my drivel but this post has compelled me to write. I have to ask the question regarding Mr Whitehouse and his sad situation. Do you think you and your families reaction was necessarily a 'mormon' response to a need? I am not mormon but as soon as I read it I felt for the poor man and almost wished I could help him. (bit far from Australia though!). I think any compassionate, caring person would respond in a similar manner. I hope you don't take this as offensive but you don't have to be mormon to care if you understand what I am saying.

c jane said...

Good point Kebeni.I think the experience I meant to convey is that as Mormons we have this very defined, ready-made, help-line from the bishop who can help with details to the Relief Society to bring in meals. Of course, there are many individuals, religions and organizations who are defined to help others--this was just my story of a Mormon experience.

Does that make sense?

Anonymous said...

I joined the church some 10 years ago but have been inactive for the last 8. I had such a hard time with some of the doctrine (I was raised pretty devout protestant), but especially with all the pressure I received on the banning gay marriage issue here in CA. (I am pro-gay marriage.) The culture was also like a different world to me, that I often felt I didn't "fit in." (Not to mention that at the time I was 27 and there was no one left to date or marry at that age! :)

Regardless of my differences, I am torn every day about whether or not to return. Your story illustrated to me exactly what I miss most about the Mormon faith and culture.

Trust me- I am the first to be skeptical of things like you suggested, Kebeni. But I have seen- both as a Mormon and prior to being Mormon- so much good that the faith does!

I just wish I were still "good enough" to be able to go back...

Anonymous said...

Hey Anonymous,

I'm a pro-gay marriage, single 31 yr old Mormon gal and I say you're "good enough" just as you are! Whenever you feel like comin' on back, we'll re-define 'normal' together!

Love, Sarah

thorney said...

This post touched me deeply. When my husband was first diagnosed with cancer and had surgery and then started chemo, we were busy with a cancer life and not doing our yard work--and everyone in town knows I love to garden and take pride in it. I had a knock on the door one afternoon and a group of teens stood there telling me they were here to do our yard, both front and back. They had been sent over by their Bishop (LDS) who was a friend of mine from Rotary and knew what was happening with my husbnd.

We had chemo every Friday and we'd come home on Friday evening after 12 hours of chemo and find dinner in an ice chest on our front porch brought to us by the Relief Society.

I started crying when I read this post it just brought such beautiful memories of a church reaching out to a stranger with such love, at time when it was so needed.

Thank you for sharing.

--Mari

notesfromthefrugaltrenches said...

One thing I always applaud the Mormon Church for, is their caring outreach to those in need, whether that be meals, visits etc. I think it is an area that other Churches struggle with at times, at least all the Churches I've been a member of. Many are very good at offering meals for a week when a baby is born, but nothing for those in hospital,sick or even just struggling.

Anonymous said...

First off, I will start by saying... love you, your family, your blog, even grew up in oak hills. I am a young sinle mother of two very active young boys. I have been fairly inactive most my adult life, more so since my divorce. I continue to be frindly with neighbors and some of them which are dear friends. Not once in the four years I have been divorced and going at this alone have I recieved ANY support from ward members. Only hurtful gossip and complaints about my yard. I do have home teachers, have made it clear I would love them to come into my home, need their presence in my home, they do NOT. I am literally in survival mode each day as I am sure every single mother can identify with. I know I am not alone. It has just been very disappoitning. The very principal christianity teaches is NOT practiced. I have to remember the church is good. People are people with flaws of their own. And everybody else has lives and problems of their own. totally get that. We are not all perfect. But in my opinion mormon, non mormon, inactive mormon, when there is CLEARLY a need we all need to reach out not turn the other way while they drive past in their 80,000 vehicle. cmon people. Growing up, my grandfather would spend each saturday doing some act of kindness either for a widow or a single mother or a family in need. Maybe its just not the same anymore?

Anonymous said...

Sarah- Your comments touched me deeply! I would love to chat with you more, if you feel open to it. Feel free to e-mail me at: CaGirl@email.com

Kebeni said...

I think community is a beautiful thing. I have a friend here who is a mormon and I often say to her that I love the sense of community she has thru her church. If it was ok not to be a 'believer' I would join LOL
Mind you community can be found away from church too and when i was having my babies (5 and 7 now) I belonged to a lovely group of like minded mums and we cooked for new mums and did housework etc for them. It was a great support network.

Anon I wouldn't say I am skeptical, just aware that it isn't just a mormon thing. Mind you if something dreadful happened in my family I wouldn't mind living in CJanes neck of the woods LOL

Virginia said...

This is a really lovely story. It reminds me of my first ward, which I was a part of in another mostly non-LDS state, when I first converted.

Reading the comments helps me even more.

I think it is easy to know something should be done when something like this happens, but when someone within the church is struggling with their faith or their place in the community, I wish people were as understanding. That is what I am going through right now. It's not that I'm losing faith, just struggling with certain things, and certain bishops just don't feel trustworthy...

anyway, I'm not trying to say anything bad about your post. I just felt like this spoke to some of my difficulties right now.

Thank you for sharing.

I am Lorinda W- you can call me LoW said...

In the book The Blind Side (know the movie? With the huge black football player that was taken in by a rich white couple?), in the book, that the movie doesn't share is that BYU's home study is what saved the football players tail so he could go to college. (his graduation grades didn't cut it) And Mr Touhy (the acting dad to the football player) kept talking about how great this Mormon school is for this program. In the end he said, "Those Mormons sure are nice! Such a shame they are going to hell!"

Growing up with Baptists and being surrounded by them even now in Georgia I laugh, because boy howdy are they ever going to be surprised in the next life!

Anonymous said...

I think the only thing that keeps you out of hell is believing that Jesus Christ is the true son of God - He came to earth to die for your sins and if you have faith in Him you will be saved. Not by doing anything here - the gift is free (by grace) you just have to believe and accept Him as your savior. I'm not clear on what Mormons believe pertaining to Jesus...

Anonymous said...

this post creeps me out b/c it is an example of the judgment and intolerance of others that can be part of the mormonism some practice. isn't it really about compassion and basic humanity?

the vicious anti-gay prop 8 campaign that the mormon church funded and promoted in CA is a shining example of hate and intolerance cloaked in religion. godly? i don't think so.

Anonymous said...

I prefer to look for the sameness in things not the differences and while I'm not a Mormon, several things about Cjane's experiences are the same as mine. Large family, the longing for as many children as there will be, the presence of faith and a faith-based community of people who help and comfort in times of need. The balancing of femininity and female identity in the world vs in the faith. I never read this blog and don't see myself and my community in each and every post. Except my husband doesn't call his phone the "sister wife" he calls my best friend who is also his best friend the sister wife (he thought I, being a Mormon fan, would appreciate the joke).

I think I understand what Cjane is trying to convey here simply because I do it often in my own life and in my community all the time. It isn't that compassionate action belongs only to Mormons because of course it doesn't. It's just that the modes of compassionate action one is used to taking are tied to one's faith. I serve food at our local homeless shelter, I knit blankets for babies in the local hospital, I make pants and shirts for injured service men and women who've lost a limb in the war and need clothes with open sides and snaps so that they can re-learn to dress themselves, I'm a prayer partner for people coming into my faith, I explain and introduce my faith to people at least once a day every day. There are many women across the country who probably do these things, or things like them too, but if you ask me why I do them the answer is simple. I'm Catholic and that's just what we do and who we are and how we do it. Catholicism, like Mormonism, isn't just a religious organization, it's an all-encompassing way of life and that sometimes is hard to explain in a 15 minute conversation or an entire evening. I'm not just a Catholic, my Catholicism is me. And even if our doctrines are not the same the LDS in my hometown are my faith-sisters. We don't practice under the same faith but we practice in the same spirit of faith. And we run into one another around the town in the same areas of need each reaching out to help the same problem from our different directions. When a house burns down in our town and the family doesn't have insurance or someone to help, even if they have no faith at all, I know that my church will be there and I know that I'll see the LDS there too.

sarah, rsm said...

"Good answer!" is what came to me after reading your blog today. I am Catholic and I can say I, We would have answered exactly the same way. Just think what the world would be like if all of the Divine's Belief systems had that same answer ...

Anonymous said...

Other bodies of believers don't have a very defined, ready-made, help-line from the Bishop because they can cook Cream Corn Casserole on their own. What is so challenging about the "details" of bringing in meals for a widower that we need a Bishop to coordinate them for us?

Like some other things in the Mormon faith.


I don't need a Bishop to help me coordinate caring for my neighbors and I don't need a High Priest to allow me to come to God and be forgiven of my sins. I can do that all by myself.

Ms. LaPointe said...

CJane, will you let us know how things work out for Mr. Whitehouse? I can imagine how overwhelming it is to lose a loved one and then to be confused about the post-passing process can truly cause more pain.

I know your mom will help sort him out but would love to hear how he's doing in the future!

Bless your momma for being a kind soul!

Teachinfourth said...

I think that it's great that there are people out there, genuine, loving people who are striving to make a difference, and trying to change their own 'local' areas of the world into better places.

True living of one's religion is what you do when nobody is watching. When the cameras aren't rolling. When you are alone.

I have a dear friend who secretly devotes herself to others all the time, and another who is somewhat selfish...in both cases, they are choosing to live out who and what they truly are. They are both living their personal religious affiliations. However, one must also remember not to judge an entire religion, ethnic group, or society on the actions of just one or two individuals. There have been moments in my life when I most certainly wouldn't want that to be done because of watching me.

Would you?

Anybody who is trying, in my book, is awesome and should be commended. A focus on our similarities and not our differences can make all the difference in the world.

We live in a Zoo! said...

I think trying to explain our faith is actually one of the hardest thing about being LDS.

LAYLA BLISS said...

if i could have lunch with any of you clarks/nielsons, it would be your mom! :) i can just picture her worrying for poor mr whitehouse.. curls in tact and looking swanky as usual. she is so cute.

and i also would like to know how things work out for mr whitehouse.

p.s. my word verification is "gangsta." seriously?

Anonymous said...

My family lived in Utah for a few years when I was young. One Sunday in the early afternoon, our backyard started flooding. And then it REALLY started flooding and was threatening to pour into the basement. My parents were at a complete loss as to what to do. In a bit of divine timing, the neighborhood ward had just let out. Being Catholic, we didn't know anybody from the neighborhood ward. Yet as soon as one person heard what was going on, our yard was filled with Mormons ready and willing to help. Straight from church, some still in their church clothes. My parents were stunned by the outpouring of support and from strangers. I don't think I'll ever forget that afternoon.

Anonymous said...

To the anonymous "Cream Corn" poster from the orignial anonymous "Catholic" poster:

I respect your ability to oh so subtly insult both Mormons and Catholics with your reply but I'd like to give you an honest and hopefully not insulting answer. I do need an organizing body to tell me to help people in my community who I don't know personally. When my distant friend's mother died I knew her well enough to send flowers to offer to foster her hyper dog while her extended family was staying in her home for the funeral and to make her the ubiquitous casserole though it didn't contain cream corn and to take heart-rending phone calls from her at 3 in the morning when the reality of life without her mother finally set in and my neighbors up and down the street I know to help and friends of friends who will tell me they need help I also know to help but the guy on the far side of my town who lost his wife right after the birth of their daughter who needed people to come and help him learn to care for an infant and to babysit and to calm his fears and give him space to grieve. That guy went looking for help at the hospital and the person he found was a Catholic grief counselor who called the local parish priests who called all of us who are marked for service and out we went to a house we'd never seen before, to help a man none of us knew, to offer the safety of faith and Christ's peace to a man who needed it when he needed it most. That's the sort of stuff we need our network for. And as for a high priest forgiving our sins...as I'm not Greek, Russian, or Coptic Orthodox we don't have High Priest (I'm not sure if Mormons do or don't to be honest) but the priests we do have practice the act of confession and reconciliation as it's set forth in the bible for the express purpose of guiding people who've sinned towards the path of grace, if you can find that for yourself in this complicated world without any help at all times then all blessings towards you but sometimes I need the counsel of one who's been exposed to many sins to put my sins in perspective and help me reconcile myself to being an imperfect being in imperfect world. It actually has very little to do with "forgiveness" as I assume you mean it. In any case, Peace be with you.

Shannon said...

What I didn't understand from your post C Jane is why you all had to wait on the bishop to decide what to do? I'm not Mormon, I'm not Christian, but my natural instincts would tell me to go to the man, ask what he needs and visually asses (does he say he's fine but house is in disorder, no food etc.) then go about getting what he needs. Grocery run for necessities, arrange (relief society?) for meals, ask for phone numbers to call. I don't see why the bishop had to be called to figure out what to do. Please don't take offense but the visual (because you are such a good writer) of you 3 strong, capable ladies sitting there fiddling with your pearls and twirling your hair while wondering where the bishop was so you could figure out what to do struck me as odd and antithetical to who you are - and neither your or your mom are Blanche DuBois. But that's how it came across.

Anonymous said...

I enjoy reading your blog and am a fellow Mormon.
I understand what you're trying to convey here about our church but there is something in this post that irks me.
Why would your mom keep saying, "The bishop will know what to do."? Wouldn't anything he came up with be a result of the wisdom she imparted to him during the 18+ years he was under her care? It is bothersome when capable women act helpless.
That said, I'm sure your mother is a wonderful woman and I hope you don't take this the wrong way.

Becca said...

THIS is why I love Mormons. I'm not a member of your religion but I have long had a soft spot/fascination with Mormons and it's because you're just good people!

Becca said...

I hadn't read all the comments before posting my own, so now I want to post again, ha!

I can sort of understand why people might be taking this in a negative light, but I think it's easier to try to see the good in this post.

Here is an example of people wanting to do good in the world. It doesn't matter to me that they want the bishop to help them coordinate, what matters to me is that they wanted to help somebody they didn't know who was in need. It doesn't mean other people can't/don't help in their own way, but my experience of Mormons is that they generally DO want to help and I don't care how they go about doing it, I appreciate the good they do in this world.

That said, I do disagree with lots of things the Mormon CHURCH does (I was pro-gay marriage when I lived in CA, I'm against prosthelytizing, etc)...but why not look for ways we're the same instead of ways we're different? This post is an example of something we can all get behind: helping a neighbor in needs, regardless of religious differences.

That's what I took from this anyway.

Julie Ann said...

I have to agree with you on this one - I am catholic, we have (my in laws) a couple (my brother in law and sister in law) who are active mormons. They are always SO generous with anything ANYONE might need. My churches community is very much the same. I am very blessed to belong to a community that gives and gives without asking questions.
Thanks for this post.
Julie
Arizona

Alexa Mae said...

I truly appreciate and admire your testimont, and your answers to questions about our religion that seem hard for me to answer quickly.

I know what you mean: I was on the receiving end of all those meals, babysitting, cards, flowers, prayers and fastings for two weeks. They came from fellow members who refused to let me fall to my knees and gave me the tools to not give up. How quickly they were here, willing and able and how happy they were to do it.

Bless that man and your Mother for her sweet and caring heart. It reminds me of something our bishop had said to us women in relief society. "Why is it when I go to help someone in need, your wife has already been there?" You're angel mother is a great example. And yes, even angels need inspiration from the bishop on the best ways to go about serving others.

I admire you Mrs. Kendrick. Over and Out.

p.s. if your favorite girl scout cookies are samoas too then I love you even more. seriously.

The Boob Nazi said...

My grandpa just died, and the Relief Society threw together the entire funeral. It was awesome. We didn't even have to clean up or anything.

Anonymous said...

You guys are totally missing the point of the post! CJane was commenting about an endearing part of Mormon culture: the important role of the Bishop to members.

Can CJane's mom and neighbor make food and take it over themselves? Why sure. But as CJane said, the Bishop can help with all the details. He isn't there to"do things" for us, like repenting as one commenter mentioned but is a guide! I don't know where you got that idea from.


Here are excerpts from a talk given by Gordon B. Hinckley, our last president, on the subject of Bishops:

"We have more than 18,000 bishops in the Church. Every one is a man who has been called by the spirit of prophecy and revelation and set apart and ordained by the laying on of hands"

Hinckley counseled bishops:
"You must see that they grow in faith and testimony, in integrity and righteousness and a sense of service. You must see that their love for the Lord strengthens and manifests itself in greater love for one another."


I think CJane's experience here is very uniquely Mormon - I am a convert from a devout protestant family and I can really say although some leadership roles in other churches compare, it's just not the same. I also think she was correct in saying that you can't just sum up the "being Mormon" in 15 minutes.

Anonymous said...

I think it's a typical Mormon experience in that the woman who died -- your mother's and her friend's NEIGHBOR -- is known as Mr Whitehouse's wife.

Joann Mannix said...

Hi CJane,

I'm a reader of your blog, but a rare commenter. Your blog and your comments moved me to speak out today.

I totally get what you're saying, even as you struggled to define it yourself.

We are one, no matter our race, religion, or sexual preference. And no matter what our beliefs, we must find a way to discover the humanity that lies within each of our souls.

I am an Irish Catholic girl, raised in the Deep South. My family, (7 siblings), were to say the least, a religious minority. Our family home sits across the street from the biggest Baptist church in our town. Throughout the years, there have been some hurtful misconceptions about our faith and my large brood of a family.

It didn't help matters when my sister dated a founding Baptist's family's son for 7 years. Dating a Catholic girl almost caused his family to disown him. We learned to coexist, ignoring their slights as their church expanded into a colossal empire.

My father was a constant visitor to their church over the years, meeting with the various pastors over issues with their massive lighting system that stayed on all night, the enormous cathedral that took them years to build, the parking and traffic issues, the cars that littered our front lawn on Sunday mornings when their parking lots overflowed.

All of these issues caused a huge decline in the value of my parent's home. My father battled with the leaders of the church until the day he died, very suddenly at 66 years old, patching up a spot on the roof of his beloved home.

The evening after his funeral, while there was still a house overflowing with guests, a huge contingent of Baptists walked over from across the street, bearing cards, food and sympathies. The pastor spoke to my mother about my father and told her, even though they had only differences between them, he admired my dad and his devotion to his family, his own church and his country. (He shared with my mom that he made a point every day to watch for my dad every morning, from his office. He said he loved starting his day, by watching my dad put up his flag and then stand back and salute it. The pastor shared he would watch this "good man" in complete awe and admiration and say a silent prayer for my father every morning.)

He then told my mother the church youth group would find it an honor if they could mow and maintenance my parents' yard every week. (My parents have 5 acres.) After much coaxing, my mother accepted their generous gift.

6 years have passed and this church, this community of people, are still taking care of my parents' yard. My mother welcomes the cars on Sunday and has built a friendship with more than a few of them.

That pastor died in a single-engine plane crash with his son last year, leaving his church and a community devastated. I know my father was standing at the Heavenly Gate, arms extended, ready to welcome him Home.

We are one and it is in our struggle to take off our blinders and find our unity instead of our differences, that true Christianity is born.

Molly said...

I am a devout Mormon. I don't always fit into the stereotype of the Latter-day Saint woman that I'm sure Cjane was asked about, but I find that after years of prayer and contemplation, I have come to the conclusion that my individuality is a gift from the Lord and allows me to do work for Him by serving his children - just as I am.

I loved what Becca said about finding the things that are similar - what knits us together - because I think there's so much more that IS similar than is different. God loves us in our individuality, but He also loves us to be unified in purpose - friendship, helping those in need, whatever.

To Anonymous who worried about being "good enough" - you ARE good enough, this very second, just as you are. Promise. I think you sound like just the type of gal I need next to me in Relief Society. :)

Shannon said...

See that's what threw me - the importance of the bishop. Not being Mormon, I don't understand that relationship. In the post comes across as not being able to make a decision without the bishop. The fiddling with pearls, twirling of hair gave an overall impression of helplessness. In all my reading of C Jane, Lisa et. al. over the years, I never felt that these were helpless females...until this post.

Anonymous said...

And hey, the Mormons have been telling members of my familiy they are going to hell too. I used to laugh ... right until they started to legislate about it.

Nearly every church I know of has a local church and pastor. You can walk right in and talk to someone. I know the Catholics will provide money for non-catholic burial services. My local Congregational church provides daily meals to families who have just delivered a baby -- for a month. Any religion, they just need to ask. Our local mosque does so much work for the elderly in the neighborhood. I could think of a million examples.
I think it's just ignorant to think that helping others in an organized way is specific to your religion. It's not.

Anonymous said...

I don't really understand the offense people are taking from this post. I have a neighbor who is Baptist, I really know little about her, her religion, or about the exact church she attend.

If I were to stumble across her blog and she were to have written almost the same exact thing, only with her church being the one that helped it would not offend me. There are many helpful caring churches and people, nothing in the post suggest cjane thinks other wise.

c jane said...

See? No matter how long this post was I couldn't possibly explain the intricacies of this Mormon experience.

I appreciate this thread of comments.

Shannon this is for you:

I don't think it is fair to say there were three women standing around doing nothing. There was one woman standing around doing nothing THAT WAS ME.

But yes, I can see how your point comes across.

BUT my mom's neighbor was helping, remember? She had already tried to asses the situation, then she went about notifying neighbors then she went back to define more needs.

Having had years of experience with this situation, my mother knew that the bishop would know how to coordinate the more complicated issues: caskets, funeral, burial issues and help with church collected money if needs be.

But I agree with a lot of the posters here, it is the showing of intense compassion that is most beautiful. And no, that is most definitely not single to the Mormon experience.

Shannon said...

It's not the religion part that's problematic to me, it's the helpless female part. It actually made me wonder why Mormon women felt the need to check with their bishop about how to help a neighbor in need. That's not offensive to me, just made me curious. The description of the ladies sitting on the couch wondering about where the bishop was so he could tell them what to do really surprised me.

2busy said...

I am appalled over some of the negative comments for this post. If CJane's mom wants to call the Bishop WHO IS HER SON, then she can do that...Figuring out what to do takes a bit of time and thinking. This is just a snapshopt of a few minutes of their life. Good grief!

Shannon said...

You're right C Jane. I went back and re read and the lady with the pearls was going to check back with the man to assess. You're a really good writer so I came away with a strong visual of black and pink pearl lady fidgeting with necklace, your mom madly texting son/bishop then twirling hair (worried about how to help or why son was incommunicado?) and it struck me as "get off the couch and go to the man." But they are and they will. Now, go hug that boy and have an awesome day. And don't worry about what people think and write.

c jane said...

Thanks Shannon.

(I will!)

Kim said...

When my Grandma died I was really surprised at how much Relief Society actually does. You see, my Grandma was not a member of the Church, so my Mom, Sister, Brothers and I did all the prep work for the food and then my Mom and Uncle paid for everything and had to pay for the space to have the lunch and the people to serve. I really was shocked. While my folks are converts, I grew up LDS, so funerals and Relief Society always went hand in hand for me.
You are right though. That is exactly what it is. We take care of those around us, regardless of their religious beliefs. It's how we roll ;)

kwg said...

Thanks to your family for being good neighbors. When my dad died very unexpectedly, we, too, had a really huge outpouring of support, homemade dishes and love from people from our church, our friends, and distant in laws... It was such a blur, I don't remember who was what faith and who gave what. I do remember a friend of my folks, who they hadn't talked to in sometime, and his mom, set up the whole buffet lunch. The whole thing- for dozens, maybe even a hundred people. I haven't seen them since. I consider them angels, myself. There are just some people who really know what to do in bad times. And I am grateful for your mama for obviously being one of those people.

Deborah said...

I love this story. Ultimately, as Christians, no matter what flavor, we are charged with loving and caring for each other, with reaching out with kindness, compassion and casseroles. No matter our brand of faith (or lack thereof), we are all connected. Bottom line, that's what it's about.

I love your blog, Courtney.

collierl said...

I am a recent reader and have enjoyed CJane's perspective and willingness to share. I like that sassy-ness and honesty.
I have to say in response to this most recent post...I felt like there was a sense of US vs THEM (everyone else not like us) and I did not care for it so much. I grew up "different" than those around me and I would have given anything just to be accepted despite my religious affiliation.
I am careful not to judge or close off those that choose differently from me for those are the people from which I have the most to learn.

Anonymous said...

One of the troubling things for me (based on experience and my interpretation of the anonymous reader above that doesn't feel like she is "good enough") is that while Mormons may show a tremendous amount of compassion for other active Mormons and strangers of another faith, why does it seem like they have no care or concern for their inactive members? Why is it that someone who once belonged to the church can live 8 years or more without being called upon by a member of the church and left to feel like they are unimportant or not good enough? I realize that may not be the case for Mormons in every community (in Utah for example), but it certainly seems to be the case around here.

Ann said...

I know what Courtney was trying to explain. The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is organized in such a way that when there is a crisis of any kind, it is equipped to jump in and handle the situation. If you look at all of the disasters the world has had...such as Hurricane Katrina, 9-11, and most recently the earthquake in Haiti, the Mormons are always right there with aid. Not only delivering enormous amounts of food, water, clothing, medicine, etc. but also doctors, construction workers, and various good people who want to be the hands in helping. And they do it all on their own time and with their own money. No paid clergy.
They do it because they want to
help others.

I imagine the reason her mother mentioned calling the bishop, is because the bishop oversees the funerals of its members. He not only would have experience, he would have information in regards to the steps a family would need to first take in preparing a funeral. The neighbor did not know where to start. They were thinking of how best to serve him at the moment.
I know that what the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints teaches is that which the Savior, Jesus Christ taught. To serve and to love others.
Yes, not all members of the church live according to what the doctrine teaches. There are people of all religions who do not live their "beliefs."
I have felt something peaceful... something accepting and welcoming with the Mormons. Almost like being HOME.
This reminds me of an experience years ago that my friend shared--Her 5 year old daughter did not make it home from school one afternoon. She frantically knocked on doors in the neighborhoods surrounding the schoool, asking if anyone had seen her daughter. All of the doors she knocked on told her "Sorry, haven't seen her." and closed their doors. But she knocked on the door of a "Mormon" (she later found out) and you know what the lady said, "I'm so sorry. I did not see her today after school. (she hugged her) LET ME HELP YOU!" This woman knocked on doors, she went and searched the school. The sheriff's department was involved. They ended up finding the girl somewhere near the school. She was fine. But her mother was SO grateful and appreciative to this Mormon woman who missed an appointment she had to help a neighbor in need.
That's what the Mormon church teaches. That's what true Mormons do.
I am so grateful to associate with such wonderful people.

Ann- in Washington

Susan said...

I am not Mormon but that doesn't mean I can't read mormon blogs obviously =) My only question is, why do you have to contact the bishop to help this neighbor? Why can't you just set up people making meals for him?

Susan said...

Ok, skip my post above =) I see that my question was already talked about.....I didn't want to have to read all posts but I skimmed!! By the way....I'm not being negative. Sometimes people take negative just because we ask questions. That was not my point to be negative.

Anonymous said...

I don't understand this post, either. I'm right there with the people who posted about the 'us vs. them' feel to it, the cream of casserole commenter and the others who pointed out that this entry could be used to describe a variety of other organizations and faiths. Our family is military, and whenever there is a crisis or death, there is an amazingly fast response. We don't call the bishop. We call the first sergeant. If a basement floods, fellow soldiers and families are over to help repair the damage and provide food and aid. If a solider can't afford a plane ticket home, there's an aid program where he/she can get one and not have to pay it back. The beauty with the military is that everyone involved is different - from different backgrounds, faiths, race, gender, everything. My point is that this is not a uniquely Mormon thing. But reading this, it sort of feels like you think it is.

Cardalls said...

she didn't have to wait for the bishop to tell her what to do...but through the bishop there can be coordination and organization and someone to direct the kindness and compassion. I know there are many "random acts of kindness" done without any bishop directing them throughout the world from compassionate LDS people (and non LDS people alike).

Shannon said...

I think we all agree that helping others isn't relegated to one religion, ethnicity or community. It's a human trait. Here's what is giving us non-Mormons pause:

"We need to call the bishop." Said my mother, who has the bishop on speed dial, because the bishop is her son. "The bishop will know what to do." (emphasis added by commenter)

After calling, texting and emailing the bishop without an immediate response my mother stewed. "She was having such a hard winter. I hadn't seen her in a while. We need to help him. The bishop will know what to do." (emphasis added by commenter)

It's that one line that is the kicker. I don't mean for anyone to take offense. It's not negative. It's just a question. Courtney was pointing out what is unique about Mormons and this is what jumped out at me. I did not take it nor do I think that she means that Mormons have the monopoly on helping out someone in need. I think she was trying to demonstrate the organized help system that Mormons can tap when needed. But it seems like they need to bishop to figure out what to do.

G Clay said...

Dear Courtney, I love your blog. Looking at many of your comments I'm glad I don't have a blog.

Amy said...

Landlines are overrated. We don't have one either.

Who doesn't love a good story of compassionate service? That is my Mormon experience as well. What a great example your family is of loving all-unconditionally.

Anonymous said...

When my grandmother died a couple years ago our little evangelical church pulled together to provide a very lovely service, lunch & dinner for the family, and lots of support without being prompted or asked. My grandmother was not a member of our church, too. People who didn't even know her came to the service.

If this man is a member of a Baptist church, I'm almost certain he has his own support system. In his shock, he obviously hasn't thought or talked about the details yet with his baptist pastor & support. Judging by his supposed comment about Mormons going to hell, he obviously has strong feelings about your faith. Whether you agree or not, you need to keep your distance out of respect for his feelings. Many evangelicals consider Mormonism to be based on false prophets & prophecies, including myself. That said, CJane, I think you and your family can be MOST respectful by leaving this man alone. If I were in his shoes I would not want Mormons involved in the celebration of my beloved's life & death & salvation through Christ. With all due respect, I feel very strongly about this. Evangelical churches may not have your fancy "relief societies" and "bishops" to call, but we have our own systems of support when a death in the congregation or family occurs.

Shannon said...

C Jane: I hope you've stopped reading by now.

Evangelical Anon: It's comments like yours that make me want to gather my family and move from the bible belt as fast as I can.

kentucky said...

As one who is Mormon, cjane's defender and one who has been the recipient of hundreds of "casseroles," Courtney's comments make complete sense. No one needs a bishop to tell them what to do, but sometimes, when difficult things happen, it can be overwhelming and time consuming if there are separate and many offers for "help" when there are doctor's appts. to go to, or funeral arrangements to be made, etc. The bishop (and more often, the relief society president) can help unify the effort and desire to help (that people of all different religions feel) so that the well-meant offers of help can be best utilized.

That's all she was saying. Geez.

Brittani said...

I tried emailing nienie but I know she is so busy. my sister and I want to give her a hospital gown for her next trip to the hospital. our website is www.laborlooks.com can you and your sisters pick out which fabric and size she would want to have and we can mail it or drop it off somewhere (i am in AZ)? Please email me at brittani [at]laborlooks[dot]com.

Lisa said...

One should not be offended when others reach out to help, regardless of their religion.
Too many of you readers are becoming offended at a simple story of some Mormons wanting to help their neighbor.
Really?
Do you have to search so hard for reasons to dislike a particular religion that you even have to find fault in people wanting to help others?

Anonymous said...

Kentucky, don't discredit what others picked up from the entry. Everyone reads and receives information differently based on their circumstances and experiences. Their opinion is just as valid as yours, just as valid as CJane's, who - by the way - really doesn't need a defender. Her blog is her opinion, and anyone who reads it should know by now that she's a proud Mormon who shares her faith. No defense needed.

Anonymous said...

I understand what everyone is trying to say about the collective goodness of humankind. However, I am a bit disturbed that, even in unintentional, it was cloaked in this blog as a "mormon" experience. I have lived in Utah, not far from cjane, for several years. My experience is the local mormons are quite willing to help you if they think you may start to attend their ward. Once they understand that will not be happening they drop you like yesterdays news... then you can't even get a wave from those "friendly" neighbors. I am sorry if this sounds negative... but like cjane's blog is her experience, this has been mine.

rich and steph said...

Great post! It is true that many acts of service are done without the bishop directing them. CJane is right about calling the bishop for help with the funeral. My mother is a RS president in a ward with many elderly members and they have at least 4 funerals a month. The bishop is a great resource to tap into at this time of need. He is able to help organize the funeral services, help with expenses, etc. He does not have to assign people to bring food, etc. That is done by caring people of any religion.
Sorry to those who have had experiences of not receiving as much help as they may have needed. Our family always reminds ourselves that the church itself is not at fault for things that may happen to the members. It is our responsibility as members and as Christians to help others as needed and to provide help in the community as needed.
I don't believe that this post was intended as an us vs. them type of mentality.

Paige Nicolle said...

People are so quick to bash a "Mormon" post.

I too have experienced profound compassion within the Mormon culture at times when I have been both inactive and active. It had nothing to do with my church status, but the charity of it's members.

I have (and I don't know who hasn't) been offended, at one point or another, by other Mormon members, but the church as a whole is overwhelmingly caring and generous.

Even though the Mormon culture is impossible for some to understand, the compassion described in this post has been my Mormon experience as well.

Thanks for the post c jane.

Lois said...

I am very interested to see how mormons live since I know nothing about them. I appreciate you sharing your experience and hope that the negative comments don't make you hold anything back.

kentucky said...

Okay. You're on your own Court.

Anonymous said...

I understand that it is confusing to Mormons why Christians are sometimes offended and reject the "help" and "good works" Mormons offer in times such as this. Let me explain a little behind our reasoning.

One of the major differences between LDS and Christian Evangelicals is that we do not believe good works are required to gain salvation. We believe good works (in the Bible a truly good work in God's eye is said to be a "fruit of the spirit") occur after you're already saved.

Sometimes it might seem to us that Mormons only do these nice & "good" things because they think they're getting rewards in heaven for it.

As a Christian, this cheapens the act.

I'll say it this way:
If my husband came home with a dozen beautiful roses tonite because I DEMANDED he do so, it woudln't mean much to me. If he did the same thing on a complete whim, without being prompted, it would mean so much more!

So these good things Mormons are supposedly always doing don't feel sincere or truly righteous to us Christians. This is why they offend & annoy us. They seem like part of the Mormon "act", something only done because you think you're gaining rewards in heaven for it - not because (and this is how evangelicals describe a TRULY good work) you feel so wonderful about the salvation God FREELY offers through grace & faith, that you are naturally inspired by the Holy Spirit to pay it forward and honor God by giving of yourself.

Hope that helps clear up some of the confusion.

Anonymous said...

Shannon-

"We need to call the bishop." Said my mother, who has the bishop on speed dial, because the bishop is her son. "The bishop will know what to do." (emphasis added by commenter)


CJane correct me if I am wrong...but do you think your mom meant by that phrase
"The Bishop will know how to best organize it."?

That is what I take out of it.
When I read this I don't see someone who is asking permission to provide service for someone else.
I think she was looking at the bigger picture and knew what it would take to make sure the help was done in an organized and truly "helpful" manner.
That way the poor guy isn't getting 7 meals on the same night by people trying to be helpful...when maybe he could use help organizing his wife's funeral!
In addition, when helping someone it's easier to have a "center"
such as a Bishop or 1st Sergeant that can delegate responsibilities and lines of communication so that things are more orderly and effective.

The Fear Fam said...

Wow ... a lot of you are trying really hard to be offended.

Thanks for sharing a snippet of your experience, CJane. You represent our faith well, and you do it knowing you'll be the recipient of anonymous negative comments. I admire that.

To anonymous #1 (comment 3) - you are ALWAYS good enough to come back. ALWAYS.

Lucille B. said...

I am sure many of you have heard the question, "If you were accused of being a Christian, would there be enough evidence to convict you?"

I choose not to judge the entire Evangelical church based on the anonymous comment posted by someone claiming that religion. True Christians accept and love all of Gods children. I believe that is why these good people want to help their neighbor. They care for all people, not just those belonging to their religion.


I have a sister who is Mormon and interestingly, her two best friends are 1. devout Catholic and 2. devout Southern Baptist. They all go to church on Sunday, they all live their lives with morals, and they all know the true meaning of what it means to be Christian. They have great respect for one another. Because they know what true Christianity means.

Bless these women who want to help. They are true Christians.

Indie said...

Just the title of this blog post
"Late Afternoon Mormonism"
indicated the mood the writer was trying to set.

A peek into a tiny slice of her day and her interpretation, in words, of how she experiences her own spirituality.

I for one appreciate the glimpse very much.

And no- I am not Mormon. I don't think I have to be to enjoy the thoughts of another, when those thoughts are just as rich and valid as my own.

Who was it that said

"We are not human beings having a spiritual experience but rather, we are spiritual beings having a human experience."

Not sure who said it but nice thought!

Indie

Wendi said...

I hesitate to comment on this because it has become such an emotionally charged comment session. But I just wanted to say that I appreciate everyone's opinion here, since (hopefully) it all helps us understand each other better.

As a member of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (referred to here as Mormons and LDS), I do believe that we're saved through Christ's grace and Atonement. The good works we try to do are motivated by the love of God we feel and the desire to reach out and help His children.

All of us are in this together (regardless of religion). This blog has recently pointed out (and I've experienced this over and over) that our prayers are often answered through other people. We can go about doing good on our own--and it also helps to have a concerted effort directed through our leaders at times. But all of it happens because we want to try to help others as closely to the way that Jesus would if He were still here on the Earth. If we mess up, it's because we're human. But I believe we all just do our best-- regardless of our specific religion.

Anonymous said...

I, as a Mormon, serve my fellow beings because I want to glorify my Father in Heaven. AMEN.

*Ashleigh* said...

I think it should be said that kindness of course does not have to be linked to any one religion. In fact it shouldn't be. Shouldn't we all be kind, simply because we are all a part of the human race? We should want to help one another whether catholic, mormon, jewish, protestant or communist. Because we are all people.

The only reason C-Jane related it to being Mormon was because of the interview she just gave. While it is true that the Mormon church has a great system, the only reason it was even mentioned in this story of kindness was to illustrate yet another aspect of C-Jane's love for the Church.

Please don't take offense at kindness. There is too little of it to take offense when it is offered.

The Fear Fam said...

Anonymous re: Mormon's belief in good works ...

I think you misunderstand. We believe in faith *and* works (as spoken of in the book of James), but we believe those works and acts of service need to come from a place of love, and through a heart changed through faith in Jesus Christ, just as you do. We do not believe that tallying up good works alone gets us into heaven. Having an effective organization in place to help provide those good works does not mean we are doing them out of obligation. It means we are trying to be efficient. :)

For example, we believe that if a dying man who made bad choices all his life sincerely repents of those choices and accepts Jesus Christ as his Savior, he will be saved. We don't believe that just because he is on his deathbed and isn't able to bring someone a casserole, then he isn't saved. We believe the Lord looks on the heart. What we don't believe is that just crying "Lord Lord" is enough. There must be a change of heart that then leads to action.

I think our faiths are much closer on this topic than many have been led to believe.

Laurel said...

Wowsy.
1. First off: CJane thank you for your bravery. Bravo.

2. To the evangelical anonymous: Despite the fact that you would not want me anywhere near you in time of crisis, you are welcome in my home any time with any need.

3. To anonymous without contact for 8 years: As a member of a Relief Society Presidency, I can attest to the fact that many hours are spent discussing, praying for, and visiting those members of our ward whom we haven't seen for awhile. It is a very fine line to walk, as you can imagine. We never want to be pushy, yet we want to extend our love and support. Some, like you, are very open to visits and others are...well, not, to say the least. What may have happened is that, in your move, your records didn't reach the ward. The church may not know you are there. If you haven't had as much contact as you would like, pick up the phone and call the ward. They will be at home very soon. That I promise.

Shannon said...

Anon who is responding to me:

Yes, I completely agree that someone should coordinate. In my experience that is usually a neighbor or close friend. This my be my ignorance about the Mormon church but I took bishop to be a church elder or the pastor/preacher. Not someone in the neighborhood who knows the man. IMHO, the neighbor who talked to the man could just as easily organize people to bring meals, phone calls, kids to clear the snow from the drive. I would think the bishop would delegate the task to someone closer to the situation and that this is out of his purview. I would have thought the relief society is the better point of contact for organization of needs. But this might just be my ignorance of Mormanism which is why I've tried to be respectful and just pose questions in what I hope is a nice way. I really don't want to offend. I'm a nice person.

Anonymous said...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wdmy7mbSUEo&feature=player_embedded#


copy and paste this link. It might help some of you.

I am Lorinda W- you can call me LoW said...

C Jane-

I now understand why you like to have the comments turned OFF.

Kelly Jean said...

Wow... what an interesting feedback.

Funny how this post was not meant to insult anyone or convey the message that Mormons are better (or more "compassionate") than any other religion... it was a simple experience, and meant something to C Jane and increased her feelings on her faith.

I love the sense of community and one-ness that ANY religion or group or club renders. As humans, we like to feel as though we belong to something... we like to feel needed and valued. Doesn't mean one group (or religion) is better than another, they're just different. And I think anything that leads people to do good and serve others is worth commending.

Wouldn't the world be a better place if everyone took less offense, and focused their thoughts on looking at the positive in people/situations rather than the negative? Funny little world we live in. It'll be better one day. :)

Thanks for sharing your experience, C Jane. It's a beautiful one.

Amber said...

Amen to G Clay. That made me laugh. I love your blog Courtney.

pollydove said...

A little over a year ago, a family in our ward lost their 17 year old son in a car accident just before graduation.

When I heard the news I did not know what I should do for them, but my heart broke so I stopped by their house to give the mom (a friend of mine) a big hug and tell her how sorry I was, and cry with her for a little while.

When I arrived at their house, the bishop, his counselors, our stake president and several ward members were also there.

I noticed that her house was a wreck and with all the people who would be stopping by I knew (as a fellow mom of a large family whose house is OFTEN a mess) she would wish that it was clean.

So I went home, changed my clothes, grabbed some cleaning supplies and went back. I said, "I am here to clean" and I just dug into it.

I am not sharing this for kudos, the point here is that I knew her, she was a friend of mine, and that is what I would have wanted someone to do for me. But if you don't know someone well, who has suffered a loss - you may not have a clue of how to help.

But the bishop might, or might find out for you. I can only imagine how overwhelming it would be to have "strangers" send a barrage of ... whatevers when you are in a very delicate situation.

That is why it is probably best to put a bishop, or pastor, or group leader, or sergeant in charge.

(P.S. I totally got what you were trying to say Courtney. Isn't it interesting how many anonymous posts there are this time?)

Shannon said...

Thanks for the post edit explanation C Jane. You rock. And now the whole thing makes so much more sense.

And this is just to say that reading your blog and Lisa's has inspired me to be a better wife and mother and makes me think about moving to Provo and out of the heart of the bible belt. And I would so love to go to Rooster. It's that pesky inversion layer that gives me pause.

Lisa said...

Shannon,
You already said you were not familiar with what a bishop is, and all he does, you could not have known the reason why these women would want to call the bishop if you did not understand his role in helping ALL in the area he serves, and the experience he has in handling funerals.
I think at this point the main concern was getting him started with funeral plans because he didn't know where to start, so they wanted to get him help with that.
I have experienced some family tragedy and I know that many people brought food to us, and we appreciated it greatly, but it wasn't our number one need. We were so sick from our loss that we couldn't eat a thing!

David and Shalynna said...

Loved the post, love your blog. It's hard to explain things about our faith and I think you do it very well. You (and your family) are a great example to many. Thanks!

e. del mar said...

yikes. good work cjane.

To those concerned about the Bishop thing (Shannon, you asked a great question, I saw the hair twirling thing as an inside joke-- can see how it would be weird):

The problem is that women (any caring woman or man), will usually jump in with two hands and do everything they can. It's nice to have one or two people coordinating so all efforts can be incredibly focused and render the most help.

That way Mr. Whitehouse doesn't end up with 100 casseroles, and no appointment for a casket, and no notified family members. That way Mr. Whitehouse doesn't end up with 10 people cleaning his front yard, but no food in his fridge.

It's just organization.

An interesting idea, that organization (something that as many people know, is not unique to Mormons--but we do pretty well) can increase the healing power of love.

Peace out!

cortnieb said...

WOW!! I cannot believe some of the comments on here!! Since when is it up to US to place judegement upon others?!! To some of the nameless and faceless anonymous commentors, why do you look for so many reasons to be offended? The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints is a church based of very simple standards. I understand that in recent time people have become very upset with us due to the prop 8 vote and living in California I have dealt with this. I am sorry I couldn't care less who wants to get married to who, but you had better believe I give a crap what my innocent children will be forced to be taught in their schools!! I also care what my church would be FORCED to do if PROP 8 would have passed even if it is something our religion doesn't believe in. So that being said...Sorry you DON'T get my vote and you WON'T force us into something!! I love how the NO on PROP 8 people would love to paint a pretty picture of the Mormons being the anti people forcing others to do something they feel they should have the "right" to do. But don't I have the right as a mother or the right as a mormon to teacher or practice the way I choose to without it being forced upon me to have my children being exposed to it? If they wanted to JUST be married then we don't have a problem but it isn't just that simple PROP 8 people...so get over it!! PROP 8 is over the people have voted we're done!!
With regards to the neighbor and the people feeling neglected by other Mormon neighbors..listen I grew up in Idaho/Utah and the church isn't placed here for you to feel fulfilled by OTHERS!! It is her for YOU!! Don't sit around and wait for someone to knock on your door and be your friend cause let's face it if we all did that we'd all be sitting on our butts!! I went through this phase when my husband and I first moved to California and what changed for me was when we moved to a new city and someone reached out and I realized how great that felt!! I decided that I wanted to do that for the new couples that moved into the ward (which happened ALL the time!!) It has changed my life!! I have served callings with the youth for the past 7 years and have been both blessed and been more frustrated in my entire life!! BUT I wouldn't change a thing!! Sooo that being said, what I gained from this my ever so lovely CJANE is that it was simply an experience. CJANE is a mormon people, she has a TON of readers who aren't mormon. And yes a mormon Bishop does know a TON of details when it comes to funeral homes and all that stuff. And to the evangelical chick, I would be willing to bet you frozen yogurt...The neighbor totally needs CJANE's mom's help!! you in?
Cortnie

G Clay. said...

Every act I do as a Catholic, charitable and otherwise, is to glorify God's kingdom and to do my part to take part in "thy will be done on earth as it is in heaven", not because I think I'm going to buy my way into heaven. I'm sure the charitable actions of Cjane's ward members are done in the same spirit, and NO we are not out to convert you as the price of our assitance. My best friends on this earth are an athiest and a gay man and I don't tell either one of them, "Sure you can borrow my car, some money, or my time as long as you conform to my religious ideas. My God and my church teach me to love everyone and to serve everyone, even those with whom I do not agree and those who would spit on me and revile me while I do it. And hating on any person for doing that is accomplished best by people I'm thankful that I don't know personally. Blessings to you and yours and your neighbor too, Cjane.

Anonymous said...

Laurel: Please do not twist what I say.

For better understanding, read this passage:
http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=2+John+1&version=NIV

While as a Christian I believe I should love you as Christ loves you - because I believe you have a false faith (Mormonism), I would prefer to not to worship alongside you at my loved one's funeral. Likewise in a time of crisis comes the need for prayer. In the same way I could not rely on a Buddhist for prayer and petition to my God, I could not draw close to you in a time of such need. Please do not try and turn this into something it's not: intolerance or hate. It's simply the need for me to be in fellowship with my fellow Christian believers at such times.

Anonymous said...

Anonymous "Christian"-

I think it's a sad statement that your acceptance of someone's service, prayers or petitions on your behalf has a "Christianity" litmus test. As a Mormon (and coincidentally a Christian) I would gladly accept (and give) service/prayers/petitions/hope/help of anyone of any faith. I think most "Christians" would do the same.

Patti said...

Thanks for sharing this sweet story.

And sorry that people can't stop themselves from 'projecting'. If they knew you (do you like how I feel like I do?) and your religion they'd know you weren't bragging or implying only Mormons perform great acts of service.

P.S. My Bishop is my hero.

Cardalls said...

As a member of the LDS church I do not do charitable acts hoping to gain favor with God. I serve others because I love my fellow man and and truly want to help them. Judge not that ye be not judged.

Lydia said...

My husband's grandparents are not members and when his grandmother passed away, my MIL's Relief Society stepped up and put together a luncheon for all the guests after the funeral. Even though no one in our ward (except for our family) was attending the funeral, they had tables, food and smiles for the 50+ mourners that showed up. That side of the family didn't really have a denomination, but the 'mormon' side of the family just filled in all the gaps & "what do we do's" with musical number's, PC religious messages. Maybe some little seeds were planted.

Anonymous said...

cortnie,

when you say:

>>I also care what my church would be FORCED to do if PROP 8 would have passed even if it is something our religion doesn't believe in. <<

what is it that your church would be forced to do?

and sorry, but we're not going to "get over it". to outsiders like me, you guys aren't really known as a progressive group (no blacks allowed as priests until 1978. 1978?!), but we have faith you'll come around eventually.

we're praying for you!

Anonymous said...

Laurel - I haven't moved. I've lived in the same ward for the last 14 years and I have heard nothing from the church through the birth of my three sons, the death of my son, not even the death of my father-in-law who was actively involved in another ward. I'm not going to pick up the phone and call someone who clearly doesn't care for me.

Cathy said...

My mother is a lapsed LDS, more commonly known as a Jack Mormon. She moved away from Utah and married an Episcopalian -the denomination I was raised in. All I can say is thank God for Bishops and the Relief Society! My mother is 85 and ailing. I don't mean to be morbid but when her time comes she will be buried in Utah and I hope there will be jello salad, funeral potatoes and ham at the luncheon after her service. I expect my cousin, a former LDS Bishop will see to it.

I thought the remarks about "twirling her hair while not reaching the Bishop" were funny. A typical mother's response on why her son wasn't returning a phone call. More mother's anxiety not female helplessness.

I'm Episcopalian but no one disses the Mormons around me!

Anonymous said...

To Anon responding to my comment on fellowship -

I guess I wouldn't expect you to understand where I'm coming from - as Mormons are known as offending many, many people by "baptizing the dead". I specifically remember reading in the news on how Mormons were "baptizing" victims of the holocaust, and continued to do so after those of the Jewish faith asked them to cease and desist. What I'm referring to here is a certain level of respect for one's beliefs.

I do NOT share your beliefs, therefore I do not count on your prayers and kindness when in a crisis, but those of my fellow Christians who do share my faith. Again, please don't turn this into something it's not.

In other matters, I do pray for those of other faiths and wish them nothing but blessings & knowledge of the Grace of God.

mindy m. said...

Good grief...I thought that Courtney was trying to convey how compassion, in a time of need, has nothing to do with a specific religion but becomes about figuring out how to HELP a fellow human being.

I am not Mormon but I appreciate that Courtney shares the details of something like her day today...and allows me the glimpse of how her life is run according to her Mormon customs and beliefs.

Who are we to come on her blog and debate whether her beliefs are right or wrong?

It amazes me how on edge everyone is these days...it's like they are waiting to be offended.

I am sorry for Mr Whitehouse's loss and thankful that the people of your ward, both men and women, are so willing to help him in his time of need.

Your post was very sweet.

Anonymous said...

Wife of Chup,

less religion- more dress patterns, jello mold recipes, and cute hair accessories please. It is your blog but you have to keep the sponsors happy and keep your sanity.

Autumn said...

Wow.

I think we have all successfully missed the point.

Tzipporah said...

Weird - what about his own church? Didn't he have a minister or something to help with all that?

But how lovely that you all tried to help him in the way you know.

Lisa said...

Thanks for sharing that glimpse, Courtney. I'm a Roman Catholic woman in the southeast. I've only met 3 LDS people in my life so everything I know about Mormons I am getting from your blog. But, hey, no pressure! Where did the word "stake" come from? When a fellow mom at my children's school told me that the teenagers have a "stake"-wide prom, I misinterpreted it as "statewide" and thought, "Dang, these Mormons really do things up big!"

Rochelleht said...

The day I don't accept prayers from anyone based on their religion, is the day that I have clearly lost touch with humanity. I ask people for prayers and don't even consider what their religion is. Likewise, I pray for people who are not a member of my religion.

It's called Christianity.

Anonymous said...

I'm not offended at all by the attempt of your family to help. I do believe, though, that this close-knit association of people who can help is common with many churches, and especially Baptists. In the southeast Baptists are the group that are known to show up with tons of food and company for funeral, and to have that phone tree in order to get things rolling when something happens. It's definitely not a market cornered by Mormons. It seems like this kind of idea is what some people are responding to. It seems a little holier than thou (pun intended).

Jax said...

To the anonymous commenter who was trying to clear up the confusion about why Christian Evangelicals are often annoyed or offended by service from Mormons:

I've been a Mormon most of my life and I have never believed or been taught that I should do good works for the purpose of being rewarded in Heaven.

I can see why our differences in doctrine would lead you to believe that about us.

But in fact, I've always understood that anyone who does service for reasons other than to show love and devotion to God and men has already gained an earthly reward and that is that.

When I was baptized, I took upon myself the name of Christ (I wonder if this is similar to what you did when you were saved?)and made a promise to God that I would serve Him by helping others and trying my best to do what was right. At that time, God promised me that I would have the help of the Holy Ghost and that the atonement would make it possible for me to find eternal happiness.

I can tell you have a great love for Christ and His atonement, and I think our beliefs are closer than you realize.

Anonymous said...

I am a protestant Christian, my husband is Catholic, my brother and sister in law are Scientologists, and one of my closest friends is an atheist. If we can all keep the peace, surely this group of readers can keep the peace. Everyone who has commented has valid points because they are based on their own morals/religions/thoughts/choices/life experiences... Just like Courtney's post. Yeah, the post rubbed me the wrong way, too. But I am not going to throw out judgments or make generalized assumptions or accusations based on what I may or may not have gotten out of the post, or what I may or may not have experienced in interactions with people from a different religion than me. And I'll come back again tomorrow. And the day after that. We should not be judging other people because their faith is different from ours (that goes for Mormons, protestants, evangelicals, everyone!). I'm pretty sure that is the exact opposite of what ANY organized religion teaches. Set an example in your own life impacting the people surrounding you with your actions, not by engaging in a heated debate about whose religion is right or wrong. Pretty sure all of the bickering is going in one ear, out the other anyway.

Amelia said...

To the ignored single mother:

I am so sorry about all you have been through. I sincerely wish you were in my ward, because you wouldn't be ignored here.

I care, and wish I could reach out to you, even if it is only online.

Write me?

noendtospace@gmail.com

February Jill said...

Courtney,

Thanks for giving us a peek into the sweet spirit of your mother and neighbors. I hope everyone remembers that the Whitehouses are real people and this is not just a story or analogy about what could or should happen, but something that really did.

I'm a Protestant Christian who very much enjoys a peek into the Mormon life. I know you come under fire when you write about being a Mormon sometimes so this might be too tall an order, but could you write about who you say Jesus is?

Since you have said before that you feel called to blog because you know you've got a platform to share, I thought maybe you would take me up on this request.

Thanks Courtney for continuing to share your thoughts even when people get a little nasty. Carry on!

Jill

Anonymous said...

Courtney I'd also love to ask you to blog more in depth about your faith. I am a Protestant Christian and don't know that much about LDS faith. Could you write about what the basics, what Mormons believe? I'm sure that's something I could Google... but I'd rather hear it from someone living the faith. Plus I have heard stuff that I'd like more clarification on (like going to your own planet when you die, etc) that is so different from what I believe, I'd just like to hear about it from someone who lives it so I can have clarification. (Totally didn't mean for that to sound like you should write a post just for me - but I'm sure there are a lot of people in my shoes).

Andrea said...

The whole good works vs. Grace of God thing is what really gets me. Evangelical: Do you really think that the Lord is happy with you just saying, "I believe" and that's it? Don't you think that by "following" the Lord you should do everything possible to be more like Him, to do the things that He would do? THAT is why we help others, and why we believe in good works. Because it is not enough just to SAY you believe. You should SHOW how much you believe by trying your very hardest to BE LIKE HIM.

Sarah said...

I'm Mormon but I don't live in Utah I live in Canada. We like to help each other too. That being said, although I know my church is true with all my heart, I think that many Utah Mormons in one place would scare the heck outta me. Bring it back to earth, people... type thing? LOVE your blog, CJane!!!

Anonymous said...

Good one Court! I love it!!
-Tart

Anonymous said...

Andrea, you asked
"Do you really think that the Lord is happy with you just saying, "I believe" and that's it?"

While it's not a matter of me "just saying", because if I have faith, it is the Holy Spirit working IN me - sort of as a proxy - replacing my soul that was killed with sin. Good works (anything I do that glorifies God) follows as a "fruit of the spirit" (Gal 5:22-23).

Yes. To answer your question, Faith is enough. John 14:6

The true good occurs naturally afterward, without prompting or incentive. But as a fruit of the Holy Spirit.

Andrea said...

You missed the point, anonyomous. You are saying that Mormons do good works because we think that we can earn our way to Heaven. Not so. We do them because we truly believe the Lord wants us to do good works, and because we are trying to be like HIM. Trying to do what He would have us do. It sounds like you have an underlying belief of why Mormons do these things, that just simply isn't true.

Anonymous said...

C Jane, you rock. As a Catholic kid who grew up in Mesa, AZ in a prominent Mormon hood, you've really made an impact on my once weary heart on the topic of Mormonism. But, really?! This post reminds me of all those bad childhood memories... being told I was going to hell by a fellow 1st grader, being left out of events and parties, missionaries so persistent in their conversaion tactics, and mormon mommies refusing to let their kiddos play with me (the non-member).

Mr. Whitehouse drives a van dedicated to his church... remember? Surely this devoted Baptist has plenty of church members dedicated to him and spiritual needs in this time of sorrow. Bring over a meal with a nice sympathy card, say a little prayer, ask him what you can do, and just be a good human. A good neighbor. No need to turn this into a ward (steak?) wide event. Give the man the privacy to mourn with friends who refer to him and his late wife on a firstname basis.

And to Lydia... seeds being planted? Are you suggesting maybe this funeral rendered a few converts. That's just a litte twisted, don't you think?

When my mom was pregnant (a total of 4 times, Catholics like to plant their seed far and wide too), the mormon mommie neighbors brought food. My parents were so in awe of their kindness... until the many talks of conversion followed.

I'm NOT a VOLCANO! said...

what an excellent post. I, too am mormon, and it can be very difficult to explain such things as this. Your family sounds wonderful. Like Mormon's should be. They sound like a sweet family. I hope that your bishop can indeed help comfort them.

Anonymous said...

Yeah "Anon Catholic Kid", you hit that nail on the head! Best comment yet.

Kathy said...

I think the conversation on grace and works in the comments is interesting and one that I know can be a source of differences of opinion. I am a Mormon and have heard these concerns expressed before. Here is an article by someone we consider an apostle that I think applies to a lot of this conversation, but the part specifically on grace and works is in section 2 for those that are interested in an official church opinion. http://lds.org/ldsorg/v/index.jsp?hideNav=1&locale=0&sourceId=70ae605ff590c010VgnVCM1000004d82620a____&vgnextoid=2354fccf2b7db010VgnVCM1000004d82620aRCRD

L.W. said...

For those of you wishing to learn more about the "Mormons" and the LDS faith, you can go to the official church website at www.lds.org

You can access the gospel library and find out what the "Mormon" perspective is on any topic of interest. You can request additional information (free of charge). You can view the heartwarming short videos which give a small glimpse of what the "Mormons" believe and teach.

You will leave feeling uplifted and good.

Anonymous said...

Why is it that when a Mormon is asked to explain or describe certain aspects of their faith, they almost always seem to point people to websites???

I'd rather hear it from you, I think. What do actual people that I can relate to have to say about the beliefs and faith?

Nikki said...

After reading the post (twice) and all the 118 comments before me, this is my 2 cents. Cjane's look into her life was just that - a look into her life. She didn't seem to be trying to promote her way or convert any of us. I am a girl from the deep south and we do things our way here. If I were to post about how we handle a death (too much food), then undoubtedly those whose norm is different would be confused and possibly offended. Although I admire many things about the Mormon family, I have no desire to be LDS. But, I respect the distinct way CJane lives and that she chooses to let me be a part of it each day. Instead of obsessing over each detail, I read, look at her cute pictures and go back to my life. Sometimes, it should just be that simple.

Kathy said...

In response to pointing to websites, for me I guess it's like quoting a scripture or a book or a famous person. Sometimes you agree with something you read or hear and don't think you could say it better yourself, so you quote it. Also, there's so much room for misunderstanding (as we see here) that sometimes it's nice to point to an official source to clear things up.

Carrie said...

Wow people are Ca-Ray-Zee!!! Cjane, I just wanted to say that a bishop is over a geographical area and everyone in it, not necessarily members only. At least that was my understanding.

Also, I just wanted to say that with all do respect to other people's faiths, we (like many of you probably) feel strongly that our religion is the Church of God on the earth. I'm not saying other churches are bad or completely wrong or that you are going to hell if you aren't a Mormon. And because we believe that ours is the Church of God on earth, we believe that this means that we have a responsibility to share it with everyone so that you all can know the truth. I am sorry, as a Mormon, that some of you have felt that a Mormon friend's service turned into a very pushy form of an attempt at a conversion, and that you want us to respect your beliefs, but there must be a way to respect your beliefs while still holding fast to ours, particularily our belief that we have a responsibility to help others come to know about the true Church on the earth today.

And a great resource that might be a bit more user friendly than lds.org for anyone wanting to know more about what the church believes, try Mormon.org

c jane said...

Oh Nikki, consider this a virtual hug. (A big, tight, virtual bear hug).

Thank you.

Anonymous said...

Thanks for the clarification, Kathy.

I do believe Jesus instructed us to be "fishers of men" however and give reason for our beliefs when called upon. 1 Peter 3: "Always be prepared to give an answer to everyone who asks you to give the reason for the hope that you have. But do this with gentleness and respect,"

So it'd be nice to hear it from actual people rather than just have URLs thrown at you when trying to get a deeper understanding of the Mormon faith.

Anonymous said...

A book that I have found to be particularly helpful in understanding the history of the Mormon faith is "Under the Banner of Heaven" by Jon Krakauer. Now before people get defensive and call me out, this book is about a fundementalist sect of the Mormon faith--those who continue to practice Polygamy and have banned from the LDS Church. However, it does a very good job of explaining the begenning of the Church, Joseph Smith, and the movement of the Churchs' people from New York to Utah. It also was helpful for me in understanding present-day Utah County culture.

Mormons, any other books that you may recommend to learn about the history of the faith that are not published by the religion and are historically accurate?? Thanks :)

Sophie said...

Nikki--I totally agree. I am not Mormon either, but I respect everything that Cjane does and decides to write about. This is her space to write and to share her life. And maybe things in her life are different from everyone who read's this life--there is no need to get worked up about anything. It is what she believes in, and she can write about anything she darn well wants because this is HER blog!! Go Cjane! I thought this story was wonderful. And to tell you the truth, even though I have different beliefs, not once while reading this post did I even think about our differences...this was just a great story!

Anonymous said...

as a Catholic, I don't believe -- and the church doesn't believe -- that we are the Church of God on the earth.

there is no one road to salvation.

we are all God's children.

Anonymous said...

Nikki,
What seemed to you like a look into C Jane's life seemed to me like a commercial for Mormonism. An earlier poster mentioned having friends and family from all different religions and asked why we can't "all just get along".
As a Christian, I respect other people's religions and/or belief systems and they do not offend me. The ONLY "other religion" that offends me is LDS, and that is because they claim to be Christian, but when you really delve into their beliefs and the background of the Mormon organization, you discover that their teachings are absolutely CONTRADICTORY to Christianity.
To understand this better, you can go to mrm.org

Anonymous said...

Nikki,
What seemed to you like a look into C Jane's life seemed to me like a commercial for Mormonism. An earlier poster mentioned having friends and family from all different religions and asked why we can't "all just get along".
As a Christian, I respect other people's religions and/or belief systems and they do not offend me. The ONLY "other religion" that offends me is LDS, and that is because they claim to be Christian, but when you really delve into their beliefs and the background of the Mormon organization, you discover that their teachings are absolutely CONTRADICTORY to Christianity.
To understand this better, you can go to mrm.org

Laura said...

"commercial for Mormonism?"

Hardly. But, Anon...do feel free to change the channel.

Charlie's Chapter said...

Hi

Well this one has brought me out of the shadows. First time commentor on this and in fact on any blog.

But here is my 2 pence (thats what we call cents over here in Scotland) worth.

If I were you it'd be a question of "hmm comments on or off".

Your decision:)

But keep blogging I appreciate that you do, you have a gift thanks for sharing it.

I guess all this kind of thing is inevitable really isn't it.

Hey ho "you can please some of the people all of the time and all of the people some of the time, but you can't please all of the people all of the time" Lincoln I believe. Wise man.

Have a Fantastic day!!!!

Anonymous said...

I just find it facinating that people who seem to be so opposed to everything that you stand for and believe in read you blog on such a regular basis. I certianly would not spend my day reading websites that offend me or say that which is contrary to what I stand for.

I read it because it makes me feel uplifted, if it didnt I'm sure I wouldn't waste my time and I certianly would not spend time arguing with people I've never met, but maybe that's just the christian in me

L.W. said...

I mentioned the website because that is the OFFICIAL source of "Mormon" beliefs. It is a great resource which may bring more insight and clarity to those who are sincere in wanting to know more about the LDS church.
It was meant to be helpful. Not an escape from answering questions. Those who are sincere in wanting to learn more will probably appreciate the website. Those who just want to bash religions will never be satisfied.

Anonymous said...

To: anonymous
just wanted to add my two cents.

I have read under the banner of heaven and many, many, many books that are anti mormon and claim to have the true information and history of the the mormon church. They are very full of hatred and negativity. Personally I have come to believe that god works in positive ways not hateful ways. (meaning I don't think he inspires people to write hateful negative books) Personally I believe only god knows what he thinks is right and what he thinks is wrong. I think anyone who is pursuing love, kindess, compassion and a christlike attitude towards others is on the right path. This is way more important than who is right and who is wrong. I don't see what pushing all of your negativity is going ot accomplish.

Anonymous said...

Anon said:

"As a Christian, I respect other people's religions and/or belief systems and they do not offend me. The ONLY "other religion" that offends me is LDS, and that is because they claim to be Christian, but when you really delve into their beliefs and the background of the Mormon organization, you discover that their teachings are absolutely CONTRADICTORY to Christianity."

Me thinks though doth protest too much. I've always thought that those with the most vitriol for Mormons do so because something about it rings true and they're trying like heck (we Mormons aren't supposed to say hell you know) to squash it.

Jennifer said...

Dear cjane,
When I first read your post this morning (first blog of the day for me) my reaction was ouch. I think that on the heels of your Provo blog about what a great place Provo is because it's family centered, I had to face the reality that in the real world, we probably wouldn't see eye to eye on a lot of things because I don't fit neatly into any of the categories that shape your world.

After reading the raft of comments though, I started realizing that it's easy to read your blog and feel, because it's such a great blog and you seem like such a cool, great person, that we have a lot in common and if we met in person that we'd be friends etc. And I bet that a lot of other people reading your blog feel that way too (in fact a lot of your commenters/fans say just that!).

So maybe when you post a blog about your faith and your views, it's a disappointment to some to find out that perhaps in the real world we might not be friends or that we don't have as much in common (besides being cool and great!) I have to wonder if some of the grief that you're getting here is due to that cold water dose of reality.

To be fair, I also think that people have strong feelings about their faith and that it can get a little competitive about who has it right and who has it wrong.

I agree with Nikki that I really enjoy getting a window into your life (as well as the other bloggers that you and your sister have links to and the bloggers that those people have links too, etc) and I really admire and appreciate your willingness to keep on blogging and permitting comments.

So, apologies for the long post but I just wanted to send you some support because it looks like it's been a very long day in cjaneville.

Anonymous said...

High fives and let's rock on!!

Laura said...

I think you shouldn't allow anonymous comments... it attracts way too many cowards and trolls:)

Anonymous said...

I agree, Laura. ;)

anne said...

When I read this post early this morning there were only about 14 comments, but I said to myself, "Oh boy, this is going to be good. People will misunderstand and go crazy." Now I'm back, in the evening, and find I was exactly right."
Please don't try to find reasons to be offended. Just see it as people being concerned and reaching out. Find a way to do the same.

Kelly said...

I have to agree with a previous comment I just read. We are saved by faith alone, not by good works or how much we do for others. Accepting Jesus as our Savior, no matter WHAT else we do to "church" ourselves or get involved with in our churches, is what assures our place in Heaven with our Heavenly Father. My knowledge of LDS is only what I have sought out online and with Cjane's and NieNie's links, in order to understand and not be ignorant or intolerant of people's faiths. But, I do know this: Jesus died for me. He died so that I would not have to rely on my own deeds to get me into Heaven or keep me out of Hell. I attend a non-denominational church. We have an incredible ministry devoted to people in need. If ever there is someone in need, our various ministries within the church step up immediately. We have a Sparrow Ministry for new babies, a Single Mom's ministry to those in need, Mary's Kettle for supplying food to families and individuals, and many MANY more. I am so blessed to be involved with my church, but that's not what makes me a Christian. "Going to church doesn't make you a Christian any more than standing in your garage makes you a car." My salvation is in one thing...I'm saved by Grace. Jesus did it all! Praise God!!

I know that there are religious sects that believe different things. My grandmother believes your church isn't a good church unless the pastor wears a robe and preaches from the pulpit. My Jewish cousins think you have to abide by the OLD laws still, because they don't believe in Jesus. My Catholic friends think you have to go through Mary or a priest to pray and not directly to Jesus. All these faiths are as different as the people who hold true to them. Jesus is the same, however, no matter what people believe...you can "choose" not to believe in gravity, too. But it doesn't change it's existence.

I love you and love your posts, Cjane. That will never change. :)God bless you all!

Anonymous said...

"I've always thought that those with the most vitriol for Mormons do so because something about it rings true and they're trying like heck (we Mormons aren't supposed to say hell you know) to squash it."

Quite frankly nothing about your religion rings true to me. When properly researched, all the facts scream, "SCAM!"

http://www.exmormon.org/tract2.htm

Every time a non-Mormon points out one of the many inaccuracies of Mormonism we're labeled as lying haters. In reality, I am SINCERELY concerned for any fellow child of God. And sort of angry with Satan for starting all this with a teenage boy & some stones he supposedly found.

Glory be to God.

(And yest I'm remaining anon, I'm speaking out against a church that at one time promoted blood atonement. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blood_atonement)

Kelly said...

@Andrea -- Protestants or born-again Christians believe that SALVATION is purely by belief in Jesus. We spend the rest of our lives, from the point of salvation on, living a Christlike life and doing everything we can to be like Him and show others who He is. It is by no means a "carefree" idea of "I can do whatever I want now, because I'm saved." What it is, is a HUGE responsibility to live a Christlike life -- but there is no degree of salvation attached to how we live. We are saved when we accept Christ died for us. Then we have a responsibility to walk and grow in fellowship with Jesus to be more like Him while we are on this earth. Make sense? I hope so. That's a huge common misconception I hear all the time. Jesus wipes the slate clean, but we are still judged for our actions.

Anonymous said...

Kelly,
AMEN!!! Thanks be to GOD!!!

Christa said...

Very interesting stuff here today! "Anonymous" Catholic kid...great comment. This post has me a little worried about the impending arrival's name...could it be "Mormon" -- or something similar?!

Donna said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Jet said...

Oh good grief "Christa".

I'm a Catholic who grew up in a heavily Mormon community. I love Mormons! I don't agree with the whole prop 8 thing, but I disagree with my own church about that as well!

I read your blog because it is a slice of life that is unlike my own, and because you are a funny, fabulous writer. My faith is often maligned and misunderstood, as is yours. (By the way--to the pp who said Catholics need to pray through Mary or a Priest--well, that's just inaccurate.)

Please don't turn off comments. It was the comments that allowed you to get the feedback about misunderstanding the role of your bishops. I appreciated that piece of additional information.

And whoever the anonymous person is is just here to stir the pot. Ignore her and she'll go away. :-)

Anonymous said...

I think it's funny people don't like anon comments. I guess any anon posts would just write "laura" or "janedoe" and have no linked profile. Would that be better?

I believe God works in positive and not negative ways too. When the LDS/Mormons funded the hate campaign against my gay brothers and sisters, I'm afraid I feel compelled to call bullshit.

Anonymous said...

Anonymous said...

I guess I wouldn't expect you to understand where I'm coming from - as Mormons are known as offending many, many people by "baptizing the dead". I specifically remember reading in the news on how Mormons were "baptizing" victims of the holocaust, and continued to do so after those of the Jewish faith asked them to cease and desist.
__________________________

I'm really curious about this "baptizing the dead". Can anyone explain this?

Anonymous said...

Jet -- I would have a lot of respect for the Mormon blogging community if they'd come out against the Mormon church's Prop 8 push. Or explain it. A LOT of respect. But I hear just silence. Sad, sad, silence.

I'm Catholic. Sit next to me and I will tell you what I think the Church is great at, the things we need to work on, and the things we need to get on our knees and atone for.

The Mormon church, according the bloggers in my reader, is great, great, great. No further questions, please!

Emily said...

@Anonymous

"I'm really curious about this "baptizing the dead". Can anyone explain this?"

We believe that to attain a certain level of exaltation or glory after this life (not to be resurrected, all will be resurrected) that you must be baptized under the proper Priesthood authority. Therefore, we participate in proxy baptisms for deceased persons who have not been baptized (we stand in their place and are baptized in their name). We believe that they will have the opportunity to accept or reject that baptism in the next life. This is one of the reasons Mormons are so anxiously engaged in genealogy work. This work is performed in the temples. Here's a link that explains it in greater depth: http://lds.org/ldsorg/v/index.jsp?index=2&locale=0&sourceId=1ec52f2324d98010VgnVCM1000004d82620a____&vgnextoid=bbd508f54922d010VgnVCM1000004d82620aRCRD

Sarita said...

I would have to agree with the few people who have said this is not a uniquely Mormon experience.

As an evangelical Christian I have to say that what compels me, as a Christian, to help others is that we have empathy for those around us. The Holy Spirit is a big part of our willingness to help others. I also believe this doesn't have anything to do with works vs. grace. In so many words, one person implied that this is something we should do to add to our "works arsenal". God's grace is complete. We don't need to add to it. By adding to the gift of salvation we are saying His gift is not good enough, that we need to help him.
Anyway, my point is that Mormons don't have the market cornered on goodwill. And maybe we shouldn't be so quick to judge Mr. Whitehouse. It's possible that not all was known about his situation and that possibly the grief of losing his wife clouded his ability to think clearly on how he was going to bury her and that might possibly his church family was helping him in ways others didn't see.

Karen Greer said...

It is always so interesting to see the sort of emotions and reactions these "controversial" posts evoke.
I think that any of us can attest to the fact that the experience of our faith means many things. It is a life long journey made up of so many meaningful moments.
This experience represents something for our dear author: part of her faith as a Mormon. That doesn't mean that what happened here can only happen if you are a Mormon.
I'm failing to see why people are seeking out the negative here.
And on a personal note Cjane, I was touched by your mother's confidence in her son's God-given ability to help. There was something poignant in that--she raised this man and now she is turning to him, recognizing the place and position where God has called him.
I am not a Mormon, but I do believe that God calls us and spiritually gifts us according to His purpose.
I don't know if that makes any sense. But it meant something to me :)

Wilson said...

As a member of the LDS faith, I will give you MY perspective of the issues some of you have questions with.

1. Baptisms for the Dead. What is this? We believe that baptism is a commandment and a necessary ordinance for all people. Baptism by immersion was taught in the Bible, by Jesus Christ. He showed us the proper way of being baptized and we follow Him. Because we believe baptism is a necessary ordinance and a commandment, we perform "baptisms for the dead" for those who have died without receiving the ordinance of baptism. We do this as proxy for the person (meaning I would go into the baptismal font and be baptized in the name of my ancestor who is dead). We also believe that the person has the right to accept or reject this ordinance. So, just because we perform the ordinance it does not take away the choice for the individual.

Now, in regards to the whole same-sex marriage issue. Let me begin by saying I have relatives who are homosexual. I love them deeply! When God put forth his plan for this world he placed Adam and Eve, a man and a woman, who became husband and wife. The first parents. A father and a mother. This was God's plan for families-to have a father and a mother. Homosexuality makes a mockery of God's plan. We (the LDS faith) believe homosexuality to be a sin.
I do not believe in legalizing other things I believe to be sins either, such as adultery.
God meant for man and woman to be husband and wife. I love my homosexual realtives, I treat them like I treat everyone else, with love and kindness. But I will not vote to legalize same-sex marriage because it is morally wrong.

Magdalena said...

Wow.

Brian and Tonya said...

Wow, for the first time in, well ever, I'm really quite sad that comments are open here. I'm used to reading comments like this under local news articles about the LDS church, but not here, where I thought we were all friends. I just have to remind myself that many of the annonymous posters here are probably 1)the same person posting multiple times, and 2)people who don't normally read this blog but scan the internet for anything mormon to voice their opinion on.

A few things I feel the need to comment on.
1) Christ is the center of our faith. It is ONLY through the atonment of Christ that we can be saved. If you feel that Mormons have too much of a focus on good works, it is simply because we are trying, as you are, to live a good Christlike life as he taught through the Bible and the Book of Mormon.

2) To the annonymous just above me asking about comments about Prop 8... I can't explain the entire LDS stance on Prop 8 because I don't represent the entire church. Some would come out against it, some of us would explain it. I can explain my view on it, but I don't think this is the appropriate place. If you really are curious you can e-mail me through my blog. Please use my e-mail, not my blog comments because I try to leave my blog as politics free as possible. For the official LDS stance on Prop 8 you can follow this link http://newsroom.lds.org/ldsnewsroom/eng/commentary/same-sex-marriage-and-proposition-8 . It has a lot of information, but outlines why the LDS church stands the way it does.

2) CJane, I love you and your writing. I love that you do not shy away from difficult or controversial posts. I can't bring myself to that point yet on my blog. You have really inspired me to think a lot about what I believe and who I am. Thank you. Don't let days like today get you down.

PS. When is that cute baby due? It's got to be coming up soon.

Shara said...

AHA! I thought, when I saw the number of comments this post engendered, cjane used the word GLORY again and everyone else noticed it too!

Nope, more Mormon-bashing. I'm not LDS (not even Republican but SAMOAS are my favorite!) and I LOVE the "I'm a Mormon, yes I am" posts. Cjane's faith is such an integral (and beautiful) part of who she is that of course we will see it as she privileges us by letting us into her life each day.

P.S. What is it with the notion that Mormons aren't Christians? That is just insulting to any thinking person.

Anonymous said...

Emily said...

We believe that to attain a certain level of exaltation or glory after this life (not to be resurrected, all will be resurrected) that you must be baptized under the proper Priesthood authority. Therefore, we participate in proxy baptisms for deceased persons who have not been baptized (we stand in their place and are baptized in their name). We believe that they will have the opportunity to accept or reject that baptism in the next life. This is one of the reasons Mormons are so anxiously engaged in genealogy work. This work is performed in the temples. Here's a link that explains it in greater depth: http://lds.org/ldsorg/v/index.jsp?index=2&locale=0&sourceId=1ec52f2324d98010VgnVCM1000004d82620a____&vgnextoid=bbd508f54922d010VgnVCM1000004d82620aRCRD

_____________________

Thanks for replying :-) Does this only apply to everyone who is not Mormon? And are the people being baptized strangers or do they have a connection to someone who is Mormon (i.e. friend,etc..)? And what if the person was already baptized in the Catholic church, etc...? Sorry for all the questions- I'm fascinated by all this!

becky said...

Let's see... I'm a Christian and a Baptist and "round here" the church does a pretty good job when a loved one dies. I remember when we discovered that my Grandfather died on a Sunday morning... before Sunday school was over the house was filled with loving help - Making beds, bringing food, unloading the dishwasher. Relatives fell into place making arrangements. I guess whatever family of faith you belong to... the Christian family around you is so important to help with stressful and difficult times...
Something all Christian groups have in common - love.

Amelia said...

Cjane once referred to her readers as guests, people who have sat on her couch, so to speak.

I think we should all ask ourselves, "What would I say if I was sitting on Cjane's couch and she were sitting on her piano bench facing me?"

This is Cjane's place. We should be respectful of that.

Anonymous said...

I guess that would depend on what the topic of conversation was.

Anonymous said...

If this was the topic, I would not hold back from proclaiming my convictions and what I believe to be true, any more than the Mormon missionaries who come to my door hold back from attempting to come in to my living room to proclaim what THEY believe to be true.

Angie said...

wow. I'm sort of glad to not be as famous as you today because i didn't hink twice about that post (other than that it was lovely). Hope you stopped reading long ago.

Katherine C. said...

Holy wow friends. Isn't it amazing how many different reactions — and misinterpretations — there can be to one simple blog post? This one has certainly led to some interesting comments and dialogue. I originally was going to respond to some of the anonymous comments (frankly, the only part of this whole blog I have found offensive) but after reading all the others, I've realized a) it's not necessary and would really add nothing to the conversation, and b) it's highly unlikely anyone's mind will be changed by this if they feel that strongly (even if you feel just as strongly that they're wrong). The one response/clarification I will make is re: Kelly's statement about Catholics thinking you have to go through Mary or a priest to pray and not directly to Jesus. Insert eye-roll here. NO. We do sometimes pray to Mary or the saints for their intercession, but we also spend plenty of time praying directly to Jesus and God as well. Honest. And now I've just done what I said I wasn't going to — make a needless response. Sorry ladies and gents. One last thing: Thank you CJane for your blog and, as others have said, for being brave enough to represent your life (which sometimes includes representing your faith) even in the face of the craziness this comment section has turned into.

Anonymous said...

Too bad there are no ads on the comments page. I'm sure you'd make awesome revenue off this discussion.

Emily said...

@Anonymous

"Thanks for replying :-) Does this only apply to everyone who is not Mormon? And are the people being baptized strangers or do they have a connection to someone who is Mormon (i.e. friend,etc..)? And what if the person was already baptized in the Catholic church, etc...? Sorry for all the questions- I'm fascinated by all this!"

We believe that the proper Priesthood authority (the same priesthood Christ had when he was on Earth) was restored through Joseph Smith. So, yes, that would mean that you would have to be baptized under that authority, and thus as a member of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.

The names for baptisms are all submitted by members of the church. I believe there are guidelines about how long someone has to be deceased before you can be baptized for them if they are not a direct relative of yours. You could probably read more of the specifics on that through that link I gave earlier.

Kate said...

Since so many of you have asked about the baptizing of the dead mormons do, see for yourself:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baptism_for_the_dead

cortnieb said...

Dear Anonymous,
Thank you for your prayers. And if you don't know what we would be forced into doing that we don't believe in as Mormons under PROP 8 in California then you clearly didn't read up on any of it and merely jumped on some sort of popular bandwagon like most have. So go ahead and read up and if you don't feel like it let me give you a brief little something. Mormons don't believe in same sex marriage. If Prop 8 were to pass we would be FORCED to perform those marriages in our temples and churches!! If prop 8 passed our public schools would start teaching same sex criteria in the classroom. I'm sorry if I don't agree with it I don't want my child being exposed to it on a daily basis. In other states where it was passed the children were being read stories about transvestites and if I don't agree with that what am I supposed to do home school my kids? What if I work? Then what am I left with? These are the things I am referring to. If it were just a marriage thing I wouldn't care but it's the things that come into MY life that I have a problem with. So again thanks for your prayers you're oh so kind!! And for your judgement...I'll keep you in my prayers as well!!

beck said...

Last Anon-

Seriously?

Anonymous said...

I didn't know Adam and Eve were the model of marriage? I didn't even know they WERE married! And the model of parenthood? I wonder if they really were the best parents in retrospect...

But seriously, do Mormons believe there was a number one, very first guy named Adam and a woman named Eve? Actual people who walked the earth? Who spoke English one presumes? Without the benefit of evolution? What about "Lucy" (the 3 million year old hominid fossil?) Do you believe in evolution?

I don't really think all these comments are related to this blog post, but the other comments. Like hey, I hear you say you want to legislate against the sin of same sex marriage. I'd like to legislate against the sin of intolerance and the immorality of taking away other human rights. For the first time ever in America. Also, the complete ruination of the separation of church and state. Wonder how I can do that?

Niki Carter said...

I had to stop reading the comments after 30 minutes. I just want to say, to each his own. If you dislike Mormons so much, why are you reading this blog?

greg said...

cortnieb-legalizing same sex marriage would not force the temple to perform same sex weddings. you know the difference between a marriage and a wedding?

Kate said...

I also feel compelled to clarify - so many people (Christians, Mormon & other) seem confused as to why Christian's are so adamant that Mormons are NOT Christians. Here's SOME reasons:

1. LDS teaches Jesus was married. Christianity does not.
2. LDS teaches Jesus visited America, Christianity does not.
3. LDS teaches Satan was Jesus's brother. Christianity teaches Jesus was Son of God, Satan is a fallen angel.
4. LDS teaches we should not pray to Jesus, Chrisitanity does.
5. LDS teaches Jesus was not begotten by the Holy Spirit, Christianity does.
6. LDS apostles have said Jesus was a polygamist (Orson Pratt), Christianity believes Jesus was a pure virgin.
7. Brigham Young & Smith both taught Jesus was one of multiple saviors, Christianity sees Christ as the one and only.

These are a FEW of the vast number of differences.

Clearly, the LDS "Jesus" and the Christian CHRIST are two very, VERY different people.

Thus, in a Christian's perspective, Mormons are most decidedly not followers of Christ, or Christians.

Anonymous said...

cornie,

you're wrong.

you say, "If Prop 8 were to pass we would be FORCED to perform those marriages in our temples and churches!!"

nope.

your church -- any church -- only performs marriages they want to. catholics can make up their own rules. ditto jews. ditto muslims. ditto you guys.

you're wrong, and you should consider who is feeding you this information.

you say schools would be "teaching same sex criteria in the classroom". what would that be?

you say, "In other states where it was passed the children were being read stories about transvestites" can you provide me with a link for this?

you say, "If it were just a marriage thing I wouldn't care but it's the things that come into MY life that I have a problem with." do you see the irony here?

Anonymous said...

wait -- jesus visited America?

Donna said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Anonymous said...

People are crazy, Cjane. This is a beautiful post. I get it. Thank you for your eloquent sharing of your faith.

Kate said...

Yes, Anon. The LDS church believes & teaches that Jesus was resurrected and traveled to America where he preached to the "Nephites" (if I'm correct, those were the Native Americans.) Did you know it was also taught in the LDS church that people of darker skin - like the Natives - were more sinful? I'm 100% serious. Black people weren't allowed to be priests until 1978.

These are the things those nice elders that show up at your door don't tell you...

Anonymous said...

Yes, you are correct, Kate.
http://www.angelfire.com/planet/lds/CAIN.html

Anonymous said...

And before someone posts on this (Curse of Cain) never being church doctrine:

http://www.angelfire.com/planet/lds/CAIN.html

Brian and Tonya said...

Kate,
A few of your comments

. "LDS teaches Jesus was married. Christianity does not."

-No, we are not taught anything about whether Jesus was married or not. The bible does not tell us whether he was married. It is not essential to our development, so we were not told. There is specualation on both sides, but no firm teaching either way.

3. LDS teaches Satan was Jesus's brother. Christianity teaches Jesus was Son of God, Satan is a fallen angel.

-We believe that we are all spirit children of God, including Satan. Jesus is the only BEGOTTEN son of God. Satan is not a begotten son of God. Are we not all God's children?

"LDS teaches we should not pray to Jesus, Chrisitanity does."

We believe that God the Father and Jesus Christ are distinct beings who are one in spirit. We pray to God through Jesus. Just as Christ taught when he was on Earth.

"LDS teaches Jesus was not begotten by the Holy Spirit, Christianity does."

What do you mean here? Do you mean God or the Holy Ghost? We believe that God the Father, Jesus Christ, and the Holy Ghost are 3 distinct beings who are one in purpose, so your definition of the Holy Spirit would be helpful in this.

"LDS apostles have said Jesus was a polygamist (Orson Pratt), Christianity believes Jesus was a pure virgin."

Orson Pratt is not a prophet and DOES NOT speak for the church. This is a blatent outright lie that we teach this. See above about our view on Christ being married.

"Brigham Young & Smith both taught Jesus was one of multiple saviors, Christianity sees Christ as the one and only."

Ummm, again, no. Not taught. Jesus is our only saviour.

Where are you getting this information?

Anonymous said...

And Kate, you didn't mention another VERY IMPORTANT distinction between Mormonism and Christianity. Christians believe that they will spend eternity in Heaven with the one and only Almighty God, while Mormons believe they will spend eternity as gods themselves-gods of their own planets.

dianneavery said...

I'm happily Jewish, but if I wasn't happily Jewish I would want to be Mormon. Because of you. I love reading your blog. I love having a glimpse into Mormon life. Thank you for that.

All8 said...

CJane, You and your family are lovely. Bless you all for your willingness to serve others and to be concerned about their needs even on a busy day.

And of course you wouldn't use Mr. or Mrs. Whitehouse real names; this is a public blog.

Hang in there sweetie. Many hugs from the mid-west.

L......

Kate said...

Tonya, Here is a great resource of quotes & references for some of the information I have gained (but this is one of MANY sources I've found on such issues)

http://www.leaderu.com/offices/michaeldavis/docs/mormonism/jesus-refs.html

Anonymous said...

This cracks me up:

http://www.angelfire.com/planet/lds/CAIN.html

Because EVERYTHING you read on the internet it TRUE!!! Come on, people. Do you really think that the Mormon religion is the only one with blemishes? Look at all of the Catholic cover ups.

Brian and Tonya said...

Kate, thanks for sharing your information. If you want the TRUTH about what we believe, how about coming to our church or going to the official website of LDS doctorine lds.org Many of the sites pull things out of context (context is EVERYTHING), pull obscure quotes by leaders that were never taught as docterine, or use Mormon myths as docterine. I would never ask an anti-Catholic site to tell me what Catholics believe. I ask them. Please show us the same courtesy.

Anonymous said...

Kate -
Do you seriously believe everything you read on the internet????

Anonymous said...

Okay, as a long time reader, but never a commenter, I am horrified at how many are attacking CJane for her beliefs- none of which seem to have much relevance on the topic she actually blogged about- helping someone in need. I fail to see how she implied that this desire to help (something that I believe to be a christian virtue, though NOT solely the province of christians- There are many, many compassiate non-christians out there, let alone plenty of compassionate non-LDS christians)is a virtue only shown by LDS church members. Its just that, in her experience, that is something that LDS church members do- not that others do not do it.
As an LDS member, I do have to reply to some of the detractors. I have never, in my entire life (I'm 35), spent any amount of time detracting someone else's faith, even though I find plenty that is strange or weird in Catholic, Episcopalian or born-again beliefs. I don't understand why you feel the need to be upset about what I believe in, and, even worse, say that I'm not welcome at your "christian" party because you don't believe in everything that I do.
Many, many LDS beliefs are hard for other Christian denominations to understand because, since they are different, they can't be explained in one short sentence- and, indeed, one short sentence is usually inflammatory and misleading. For example, while it is technically true that we believe Christ and Satan to be brothers, you are leaving out the explanation that LDS members believe that every person is made up of two parts- a body and a "soul" or spirit. We believe that God, the Father, is the father of ALL of our spirits- every person who has ever lived. This makes us ALL brothers and sisters- in spirit. So, in that respect, Satan is a fallen spirit (or angel), and one of our brothers. We DO believe that Satan is a fallen angel, who made a choice to defy God the Father, and subsequently fell from Grace.
In our beliefs, Christ is the spiritual and LITERAL Son of God- the Only Begotten in the flesh, (I guess I'm not familiar with the belief of exactly how this occured- I've always believed through the power of God, which I guess could be construed as through the Holy Spirit) as well as being His child in spirit. We believe that Christ is our Savior, and that the atonement is absolutely vital to our salvation. We DO pray in the name of Christ, (though not directly to Him) our intercessor with the Father.
Also, I have never, in my life-long membership, been taught, from any church source, that Christ was a polygamist, or that there is any other savior out there anywhere. Sometimes I think that there ARE strange quotes out there from early apostles and from church members that are their own opinions, and not official church doctrine. Just as I would expect that different pastors have different opinions on some subjects, but that they don't speak for ALL members of their religion, different Mormons have different opinions on different subjects- but most would be leery of telling you that their opinion is official church doctrine. I think that is also why many want to refer questions to official church sources- for fear of being misleading, or misunderstood.
I would also like to point out that while we believe homosexuality to be a sin, and that marriage should be between a man and a woman (therefore being against homosexual marriage), the church has publicly stated its support for civil rights and non-discrimination ordinances in Salt Lake City for homosexual couples ( http://www.ksl.com/?nid=148&sid=8624086).

Anonymous said...

Thank you, thank you for all the comments I have spent the last hour reading. I needed each one of them to help with a tough decision I have been struggling with for the past week.
Thanks CJane for the forum.

Anonymous said...

wow, this thread really has evolved and taken many twists and turns.

glad for it's beginning message, but also glad for the discussion. it is not crazy, or attacking or out there...

it is just what happens when you talk of religion and faith and belief...

but that is what happens when you have a blog with a missionary message..

there are bound to be these kinds of discussions. and they really are pretty great and positive...

it is a great way to learn.

oh, just so you LDS know, that the church is involved with NOM..which just took civil rights away in Maine. The support of SLC rights, is just for the city...the legislators refuse to take it state wide and told the gay community that if they protest about it, there will be consequences...sorry I don't have the link for that info.

I wish I could share all the correct info about the Mormon Doctrine that has been misrepresented here...but I fear most people would see it as negative. You get some great stuff on mormon.org...but there is alot more to mormon teachings. but, for those interested...

it is a beautiful site. Good luck, if you are searching for truth. It is a lifelong amazing journey.

Anonymous said...

The Catholic church has a LOT of blemishes. Stop a Catholic and they'll tell you all about all the issues that have faces the Church and continues too. There are ACTIVE catholics in groups like Voices of the Faithful who work for change in the Church.

This is the thing: I never, ever hear a critical word against LDS Their treatment of black people, or gay people? All I get is: but what about OTHER religions? They've done bad things! Look away! Nothing to see here!

The impression it leaves is: What do they elders say? Ok, then that's what I think too.

Crystal said...

Donna and anyone else who posted about Prop. 8-

Catholic Charities had to shut down it's operation in the District of Columbia as well as a few other states due to the laws implemented protecting same sex marriage.
They could no longer have adoption and foster services if they were unwilling to adopt to same sex couples.

There is concern how marriage laws may affect organizations run or associated with religious groups who hold specific doctrinal beliefs.

I do believe that those organizations have a right to express concern if they will be affected by ANY imposed law.

Damaris said...

I really like this post and as a Mormon know exactly what you're talking about when it comes to bishopric and relief society. However, after reading the first comment I am intrigued whether you think this is a Mormon response or if you think it's a human empathetic response.

TheOneTrueSue said...

{{{Courtney}}}

Donna said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
from my front porch... said...

Hmm...reading comments today was almost like playing that old "telephone" game in school. You whisper something into someones ear, and they do the same.And so on, and so on. The last person then says what the message was. It is never what the first person intended!

But, I am getting off track myself :)

We can't use our cell phone at our home. No towers here in our mountains. ugh. About 10 miles into town I can usually pick up a signal. Glad you live close enough to Mom so you could pop in there to connect with a landline!

As always a thought provoking post, CJane!

misha

Anonymous said...

I'm LDS and I didn't care for this post, so I stopped reading. Then a friend told me there was an interesting dialogue in the comments so I came back.

As for the LDS/Prop 8 discussion, many LDS people have it wrong as to what the actual implications would be if it passed.

As for the LDS church giving money, the church could not actually give money to the campaign because their tax status would be in jeopardy. HOWEVER, there are MANY affluent LDS people who can give money and thus be construed as "the church" giving money. Also, the church owns many businesses that do in fact earn a profit and those can donate money, but again, the church is not giving the money. It's about how it's being construed as to where the money is coming from.

Anonymous said...

To the anonymous poster earlier who ridiculed another anon poster for "believing everything he/she reads on the internet", maybe this would be a bit more convincing for you:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P_KERZlwOXM&feature=PlayList&p=EFDCC32A2C6648CB&index=0&playnext=1

Anonymous said...

BAPTISM FOR THE DEAD INFO:
Just thought I would add a few biblical references that you might also find interesting about this.

In John 3:5 we are told by Christ that "except a man be born of water (baptism) and of the spirit(receive Holy Spirit) he cannot enter into the kingdom of God."

In 1 Cointhians 15:29 the Apostle Paul makes a reference to performing baptisms for the dead. He says, "Why are they then baptized for the dead?" when he is referring to the resurrection.

It was these scriptures, as well as others, that prompted Joseph Smith to pray and reveive the revelation about CONTINUING to perform this ordinance today--it is a wonderful experience to do this work for those who have passed on to the next life--our ancestors and others. It is very simple and beautiful, like serving others and helping in God's work on earth always is.

I am not writing this post to start any kind of debate--I just wanted to answer someone's sincere desire to learn about something new.

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