Comments on C. Jane, Enjoy It: More than Enough--Post Thought

While I am not Mormon I do have a faith system and...

2010-08-27T19:03:26.650-06:00

While I am not Mormon I do have a faith system and what I love about your blog and your posts is that you express your faith and how it impacts your everyday life. We don't all have to have the same belief system to find inspiration from one another on how to live out our own understandings. Thank you for striving to be faithful to your own call CJane. :)

Trish here: Thanks CJ for the original post. It p...

2010-01-13T13:44:12.612-07:00

Trish here:

Thanks CJ for the original post. It presented us with an opportunity to hear from many voices, and I love a good discussion on a difficult topic.

Amen to women who want more. Whatever that "more" is for them. Amen to striving and growing, amen to pushing the lazy out of ourselves, by diving into any effort we deem worthy of our attention.

Amen to our collective goodness and love. What a refreshing hour I've spent reading through these comments.

Thanks everyone. Thank you CJ.

OK, I am trying to seperate what you said in the p...

2010-01-01T11:21:20.155-07:00

OK, I am trying to seperate what you said in the post from some of the comments. But really, if you meet the pre-eminent pediatric cardiologist in the country, and she tells you that she has chosen not to have a husband and family so that she can focus all of her time and energy to saving lives, do we roll our eyes, and think, "Please, doesn't she know that we are called to do MORE?"
That is how I feel about this.
I am trying to really do my best as a wife and mother, and yes, to do that it does take almost my all. What is left, as a mormon woman, goes to things like Visiting Teaching, and my calling, and trying to those the way that the Lord would have me do. That is MORE!
I also hear the siren call of other things ... but I think of a friend of mine, who, the day after her youngest got her drivers licence went off and applied for a Masters program. She had done her best, and for her, that was the time to do something else. It is hard to imagine, when I look at my youngest (11 months old) how fast time has gone. But I know that carries into the future too, that before I know it they will be gone. And guess what? I will still have energy and opinions (probably better ones) and causes I feel passionately about. Thank goodness there is a 'time and season' for it all!

New reader here too... I enjoyed this post and the...

2009-11-29T17:42:34.295-07:00

New reader here too... I enjoyed this post and the comments that ensued! I am impressed at how many wonderful women there are out there.

I will try to condense my many thoughts on this subject:

Satan is doing his VERY best to break us down, hate ourselves, regret our choices, become offended, neglect our families, and help us offend the Holy Ghost (so that we can no longer receive that personal revolation we so desperatley need).

We as woman we judge our selves harshly... much too harshly. (again, thanks Satan)

I am a SAHM and have often thought to myself... 'Being at home with my kids means nothing if I waste away my time with them!" (also being a 'lazy' mom) I realized that I need to be trying my hardest every moment I am with them (and apologize for the moments when I am not acting as the Lord would have me act) Being a mother is one of the MOST challenging experices I have EVER undertaken... but I am trying (somedays more than others) and THAT'S what matter most!

I don't think it's about working/not working, clean house/dirty house, so much as it is trying your very hardest, being the BEST mother you can be, and leaving the self-critism out of it.

It's one thing to see the need to make a personal change (whatever that may be) but to berate, compare, or beat ourselves up for not being the 'perfect' person we imagined we should be (or imagine that others think we should be), is GIVING Satan power, and that we can NOT afford to do.

Heavenly Father simply wants us to reach our potential and he's constantly trying to inspire us to reach a little higher and try a little harder (in all facets of womanhood).

Thanks for sharing your thoughts CJane!! I enjoy your thoughts!

2009-11-29T17:38:36.916-07:00

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Hi CJane, I'm a new reader here. Maybe I nee...

2009-11-29T01:26:59.342-07:00

Hi CJane,

I'm a new reader here. Maybe I need to read Sis. Beck's talk again, but when I heard the phrase about having the best homes in the world, I didn't think as in perfectly clean and organized, but the most loving, enriching, educating, etc. Our homes should be a place that our children love to be and let's face it - people don't love living in chaos and it leads to contention. I doubt anyone would agree with, "LDS women should run homes that look like the city dump."

I think her message is that there is real value in creating a wonderful home. I know too many women who want to stay home or do stay home and their husbands think they aren't contributing to the family unless they are bringing in money. A happy home is way more valuable than money.

It's hard to deliver a message in a way that pleases everyone, but I was happy to hear it emphasized that what a stay at home mom does has a major impact on society. I also have an admiration for women who work outside of the home, but I would hope that if it were to the detriment of their children, they would sacrifice and stay home if at all possible.

Wonderful blog you have. Thank you for sharing. :)

Hi CJane, I'm a new reader here. Maybe I nee...

2009-11-29T01:26:24.190-07:00

I support and understand your desire to do more. R...

2009-11-27T15:33:14.948-07:00

I support and understand your desire to do more. Recently I had some interaction with Sister Dalton (LDS General Young Women President). Even though she didn't counsel specifically about being a wife/mother/homemaker I went away wanting to do more, to be better. I think this is one of the fruits of the Holy Ghost - to be inspired to strive even when it is hard. Isn't this the ultimate in hope?!!

This post and it's resulting comments have probably been hard for you - it is still a good conversation to have. The band The Fray says, "Sometimes the right thing and the hard thing are the same."

And sometimes the call IS for them to occur at the...

2009-11-25T23:12:06.403-07:00

And sometimes the call IS for them to occur at the same time.

We hear this sentiment a lot: Maybe now is not the time. We can't have or do everything at once.

You never hear people say, "Embrace both philosophies in the same moment. Sometimes two ideas can coexist." Do we never hear that because it's not true? Or do we assume it's not true because we never hear it? Because a different sound byte has become so pervasive we accept it as a universal truth for every person.

Even God's universal truths are not for every person at every time. Not because they're not true, but because people are so monumentally unique and flawed. The more you get down to the minutia of the gospel, the more you'll find people not living it and that being okay, because the minutia that makes up individuals varies so much, sometimes tragically.

Maybe now IS the time. Maybe we can do two things at once. Or even three. If only because we're so flawed that we can't do only one or we'll jump out of a window.

In the meantime, we make the best choices we can and they may not be ideal for everyone but they may be ideal for the flawed individual.

We need to be sensitive enough to the Lord's voice that we can hear the answer that's unique to us and not what other people tell us we're going to hear because we're sensitive to the Lord's voice.

We need to be careful when we talk about "we" to not assume that what was inspired for "me" is inspired for "we".

2009-11-25T21:36:11.288-07:00

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Steph, Very good questions. I had a huge issue ...

2009-11-25T20:06:38.910-07:00

Steph,

Very good questions. I had a huge issue with them when I first joined the church.

1. Multiple wives. As I understand it, it's an issue of practicality. Women are more righteous than men, generally and there will be more of them in the CK.

It totally doesn't bother me anymore. As I've grown older, more confident, more close to my husband, I've become less jealous. It's possible to love more than one person and our love then will be so much more pure and less ego/need driven than it is here. I can honestly say that even if my husband loved another woman NOW, it wouldn't kill me, as long as he loved me too. I'd be empathetic and interested in hearing more and I'd respect his heart.

I know. Sounds crazy or like I'm lying. But I'm not. I just love myself that much that I don't need him to love only me for me to feel happy and have self worth.

Sharing his time would bug me, though. When I think of him off on other planets with his other wives or whatever, that bugs me. But oh well. Just because it doesn't make sense now, doesn't mean it won't then.

2. Not knowing his name. Ya, that bugs me slightly. Seems weird to me, but again, it will probably make sense one day. Also, it's a pretty small thing. If I don't care all that much now, imagine how much less I'll care then!

3. Choosing not to call you forward to the CK? Mere formality, the whole thing. If you're worthy, he'll call you. Christ's opinion will trump my husband's, I'm sure. And if he's worthy to be there, he'll be the kind of person who will judge righteously.

Steph, you should be IMPRESSED, if anything, that these women like me are still LDS when things like this make us say "Hmmm...." It's because we really do have testimonies. Maybe for some women, especially perhaps women raised in the church, it's out of fear. For me, it's because I truly, adamantly know that it's the truth. I've tried to talk myself out of it many times out of convenience, but I find it impossible to deny.

So, I go to church in my heels and skirt when I'd rather wear pants and I roll my eyes at the seeming nonsensicalness of that, and I bow my head and pray with my heart and take in inspired teachings and I leave with a little less ego and a little more love in my heart.

I love God. I know he knows a lot more than I do. I KNOW he loves me and that he's never going to want me to be unhappy and that he's never going to force me into anything.

You can't choose religion based on what makes the most logical sense. We all have our own opinions and experiences that make us want one principle and not other. Religion is not design-your-own Nike shoes.

Either it's true or it isn't and the stuff you don't understand, you gotta put your ego aside and suck it up and focus on that which fills your spirit and makes you the kind of person who people can tell is Mormon just by the light in your eyes and the expression on your face. I've had strangers ask me what ward I'm in when I've had zero outward identifying traces of Mormonism. And I've done the same with others. In fact, I have a photo collection of strangers I've figured out were LDS for no reason other than I could JUST TELL.

The church is true. I know it is. And I say this in the name of Jesus Christ. AMEN! ;-)

Can't read all the comments but I'm with L...

2009-11-25T19:26:29.404-07:00

Can't read all the comments but I'm with Lexie and other Beck dissenters.

I hated that talk. For two reasons.

1. The line, "LDS women should be the best homemakers in the world." followed by what that means.

Because, dude, it takes ALL DAY-- ALL FRICKING DAY-- to be on top of the laundry, the dishes, the tidiness, the cooking, the cleaning, etc. All day. If I'm to do it all as well as I'd like it done (without being obsessive compulsive and perfectionistic) it would take me all day. And that's what my life would be. And my kids would be better off because they lived in a home that was always company-ready than if I say... went to university?

It's illogical.

And it would all work if it weren't for the 2nd thing that bugs me.

2. There was no disclaimer that I heard. There was no message of, "I know it's hard. It's harder for some more than others for various reasons like [examples cited]. And it may not be your season to be the best homemaker right now. Your season right now might be for recovery from childhood trauma (hello), for spirituality, for being a good friend, etc ad nauseum.

I really thought the talk had a self-righteous tone. She did not sound loving like President Hinckley would have.

So many talks that are hard to swallow would go sooooo far if they just added maybe two sentences of compassion and encouragement for those who feel hit in the gut by said talk. TWO SENTENCES! Why is that so hard, Beck?! Geez!

*/rant*

I realize that I'm late in joining this conver...

2009-11-25T09:40:36.070-07:00

I realize that I'm late in joining this conversation, but I have a few thoughts to throw in.

I think sometimes LDS women get the idea that becoming a wife and a mother means that one needs to lose one's individuality. This is contrary to the teachings of the scriptures and modern-day prophets. Being a good wife/mother can be enhanced by bringing in our interests, hobbies, skills, etc. that don't necessarily involve housework. Sometimes we may need to reprioritize, but it doesn't mean that we have to, or should, lose part of ourselves.

Also, it makes me sad to hear that people were offended by Sister Beck's talk. Her talk did not tell us to dedicate ourselves to ironing or dishes but to work to better ourselves in all aspects of our lives. I think any talk by any general authority tells us to do the same. I think there have been many "Fathers Who Know" talks given over the years under different titles that haven't garnered the criticism that Sister Beck's talk did.

P.S. CJane, we were in your ward in Provo until we moved back in August. I just recently found your blog, and I love it!

YOUR HAVE INSPIRED ME! It took me six years to ado...

2009-11-25T09:29:51.003-07:00

YOUR HAVE INSPIRED ME! It took me six years to adopt our first baby and seven to get pregnant through IVF. I am just ending my first trimester and it has been a difficult road. Many times it has been hard to stay positive even though a know a miracle is growing inside of me, something I have longed for and prayed for for years. Motherhood is the hardest work one will ever do it is so selfless and requires such love, patience and sacrifice. We are truely clothing the naked, feeding the hungry and providing for those in need. What a blessing.

I do not think we should compare ourselves to othe...

2009-11-23T08:35:27.645-07:00

I do not think we should compare ourselves to others. We each are so different and are at different places in our lives. And whether or not someone is doing "more" than others is not easy to say. I too, myself included, know many people who have jobs and are very active their respective communities. But sometimes that comes at a price. And sometimes it doesn't. I know people who balance motherhood and their professions and civic positions well. I know others who have no time for their families, but you wouldn't know it until you spent significant time with them.

You should be so grateful that you actually have the choice!! You have the time to maintain this blog and discuss these issues with so many people. You have the choice to stay home or not. Some people do not have this choice and must work or take care of someone. Forget about blogging or discussing. So enjoy your choices!!! And do what is best for you and your family.

The thing we should do is work on our relationship with our Father in Heaven and be true to ourselves. Not what anyone else is thinking or doing.

I have also worked "outside of the home" as a mother. Sometimes it has been necessary, sometimes it has been by choice. I have also stayed home 100%. In all these situations, I have found happiness and contentment because it was right for what was going on at the time.

Honestly, I think the PERSON (not just mother/fath...

2009-11-22T03:37:20.636-07:00

Honestly, I think the PERSON (not just mother/father/Mormon/employee) that doesn't strive to do more isn't really living.

This evening, I cooked the most marvelous pork chops my family have ever had.

TOMORROW, I will wash the dishes from tonight's dinner. I'll read a Thanksgiving book to my son. I'll say thank you to my daughter. I'll fold the clothes and put them away.

I'll be MORE patient when my husband is a pain in the rump, and I'll be MORE aware of how I drive him crazy too.

"More" is subjective. To me, I wasn't offended by Sister Beck's talk, because even SHE could be doing "more." And she would surely say so if we asked her.

You may be MORE at this than I am, I may be MORE at that than you are, she may be MORE at that other thing than either of us are put together. But it doesn't make any of us LESS.

If we were all the same, and did the same things every day for our entire lifetime without ever striving to be MORE, what would really be the point of living? But again, it's subjective. Your more is not mine, and doesn't have to be. You can't be MORE at everything, and the phrase quality over quantity is true. We all have unique facets of ourselves that other people look up to, while we're secretly looking up to them.

Not a single one of us is better than the other, so no MORE guilt, and more knowing that you're loved and loving. It's fine to want more, but you have to know that there is endless value in what you are now.

Don't kid yourself, being MOM is THE most impo...

2009-11-21T20:16:22.194-07:00

Don't kid yourself, being MOM is THE most important job in the world. We make lives brighter, smarter, funnier, less scary, and loving. We are role models and the only person in the world who can kiss an owie and make it all better. All the other talents we possess are just a bonus.

Hugs!

I always wonder why some of my Mormon friends-- wh...

2009-11-20T16:47:07.182-07:00

I always wonder why some of my Mormon friends-- who are otherwise so open-minded, tolerant, and independen-- so accepting of being placed in a subservient role to their husbands. Why is it ok that your husband can have multiple wives in the Celestial Kingdom? Doesn't that feel disrespectful to your relationship? Does it bother you that you cannot know your husband's temple name but you must tell him yours? It's up to him to call you, and he can choose not to. This seems horribly sexist to me. Why is this ok?

P.S. Just wanted to say I love your blog, and have...

2009-11-20T15:10:35.905-07:00

P.S. Just wanted to say I love your blog, and have never commented. I think what you are doing is awesome. I've certainly been inspired! And just in case my sister reads this, I learned how to be a better Mother from my Dad (go figure) who is amazing and we don't want to discount him in having a hand in helping us through the wanting and wishing. :)

I wasn't going to comment, but I really feel I...

2009-11-20T14:59:26.038-07:00

I wasn't going to comment, but I really feel I need to. I have a Mother who was not very good at being one. Verbally and emotionally abusive, occasionally physically so, never really "kept" a home, never really cooked, or did much of anything(my Dad was in medical school and gone all the time but later saw the writing on the wall) anyway, I was and still am SO jealous of friends who had stay at home mom's who were actually good at, or at least tried their hardest. So jealous I would cry. What I would have given to have my Mom have a yummy dinner on the table consistently, try and have a smile on her face, and show up emotionally. Instead she made us feel like we were annoying, and made her life hard because she would tell us. She just wanted to shop and pretty much be left alone. Being a SAHM IS important. Even the day to day laundry matters. Trust me! My Mom never got up with us before school, ever. We had cereal. EVERY morning. I could go on, but I won't. I just want to point out that while women complain about feeling like there is more they could be doing, just being there for your children matters more than anything. I too, have days where I feel like I want more, but then I quickly realize that to my child I am everything, and that is my more.

I have to remind myself that there are seasons to life, and right now mothering 2 kids under 2 is my season. I can do the things for me (like school or working as a nurse, etc.) when they are older. Do I need hobbies and outlets? YES! And I have them, but they are my "side notes" if you will. I try every day to be what I didn't have.

I have such a strong testimony and conviction that being a homemaker and wife and making the effort are the most important things on the planet. There are so many things screaming at us in the world that tell us we are cheating ourselves if we are "just Moms", but who are we really cheating?

Does that mean we can't develop our talents, be of service and gratify others because we are just Mothers? NO! Is it hard? Yep! I have had to learn to cook, serve others, and be a good homemaker on my own. I had no good example until I was about 20. I want my boys to have what I never did and I give it my all every day for them. Do I wish some days that I was at my job I used to love? Yeah, but it's fleeting. I know the other end of it, and it sucks. Wow this is long and ranting. Sorry! Anyway, LOVE that talk! It refreshes my spirit and gives me the motivation I need. Thank you for that!

You are AWESOME! I love your blog. You are so do...

2009-11-20T14:48:19.621-07:00

You are AWESOME! I love your blog. You are so down to earth and real. We need more women in the world like you! Keep it going!

Sounds like a great book. This is the first time I...

2009-11-20T09:52:43.803-07:00

Sounds like a great book. This is the first time I've commented on your blog. You are a very talented writer!

I also want to clarify that the more I am t...

2009-11-20T09:40:50.418-07:00

I also want to clarify that the more I am talking about refers to selfless giving. Not the more does nothing for anyone else. Like the women in this book, more has become another way a woman can give to society and connect with others to heal and help.

I should've made that more apparent in my post. Next time I will.

Jen, I would like you to be in on that conversati...

2009-11-20T09:39:17.135-07:00

Jen,

I would like you to be in on that conversation too because we talk about you all the time. You are one of those women we talk about and admire.

I like daughter of God too.

oh i'd love this book! And i love hearing your...

2009-11-20T08:51:14.037-07:00

oh i'd love this book! And i love hearing your thoughts. I think it is totally your more. (i'm lazy too :) )